To ask - Jeremy Corbyn - PM

[MommaGee]

There's stuff about how he thinks he'll be PM in 6 months. How the GLASTO coverage is a BBC plot to "see a MARXIST in power" etc etc but how?
TM is hardly going to call another election and Labor are likely to keep her long enough to get through the crap that is Brexit.

Apologies for all those thinking in thick but I don't see how JC has any even inkling of getting it, let alone a discussion on how much swing he'd need

I can hear what you are saying- you voted brexit and tories yet identify as a lefty who wants a progressive society.
It's not prejudiced or stereotyping to think- that's not going to work.

And please don't try to pretend I want the same thing as brexiteers- I really don't.

I'm a Brexiter.

This is not the sole facet of my ideology though.

Aside from wanting to leave the EU, I also want fair & representative pay for the emergency services; want the disadvantaged in society to not be demonised & to be supported in a constructive, fair & compassionate way; want Britain to get a grip & start investing in the young through quality education, including apprenticeships, technical & skill based training as well as university; want everybody to have access to safe, secure, warm accommodation; I want many other things besides, but that's off the top of my head.

And please don't try to pretend I want the same thing as brexiteers- I really don't.

How sad that some people don't want these things

How sad that some people don't want these things

Yeah, because a vote for Brexit was a vote for all those things.

Until we get past this leave/remain, tory/labour, left/right, poor/rich, educated/stupid, selfish/righteous BS we will never move forward as a progressive society.

The problem with this is Tory ideology. How do you reason with a social darwinist?

Yeah, because a vote for Brexit was a vote for all those things.

Yes it was!

Glad we have found something we agree on!

No we don't agree, Faith.

How do you reason with a social Darwinist?
Is he the one trying to run a sausage cart?

Social Darwinist:

Taken straight from the momentum playbook.

Used pejoratively to insinuate an ideological similarity between the social cleansing much beloved of Hitler & the Conservative party/voters.
Allows the user to affect wide-eyed faux innocence as to their offensive intent
e.g.
"I didn't say that Tories & Tory voters were like Nazis, but if that's what you decided to interpret it as, then perhaps that says something about you, not me..." (usually coupled with a ).

Tedious.

No we don't agree, Faith.

My mistake...

So you don't all the things I listed then?

You seem to be having some problems understanding my posts Faith.

I am not against eg. Fair pay for emergancy services or safe housing for all. However, I do not believe leaving the EU was either a vote for those things or will lead to those things.

So no, we really don't think the same.

But you said this:

And please don't try to pretend I want the same thing as brexiteers- I really don't.

In response to GardenGeek saying this:

See I can see things differently to you; it doesn't mean we both don't want the same things.
You need to put your prejudices and stereotypes aside so can listen instead of just hear.

Then when I listed some things that I wanted (in addition to wanting to leave the EU), you said you don't agree with me.

It really would be better if people could move past seeing posters as wholly one dimensional.
As GardenGeek said:

Until we get past this leave/remain, tory/labour, left/right, poor/rich, educated/stupid, selfish/righteous BS we will never move forward as a progressive society.

Or even to quote Jo Cox:
"...We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things which divide us..."

Yeah, because a vote for Brexit was a vote for all those things.Yes it was! Glad we have found something we agree on!

You think a vote for Brexit was actually a vote for fairer pay for emergency services and better housing.
I don't.
Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

Until we get past this leave/remain, tory/labour, left/right, poor/rich, educated/stupid, selfish/righteous BS we will never move forward as a progressive society.

No, the main reason we won't move forward as a progressive society is because people insist on voting for non-progressive things. Brexit is going to be very bad for this country. That is the problem - people pointing that out is not the issue.

People have disagreements in politics. I don't understand this bizarre theory that we all agree.

to insinuate an ideological similarity between the social cleansing much beloved of Hitler & the Conservative party/voters.

Our class system has proved to be more enduring.

People have disagreements in politics. I don't understand this bizarre theory that we all agree.

The point originally made, which you so vociferously railed against was that it's inevitable that there is no common consensus re political ideology - and yet that doesn't necessarily mean that people disagree on all things.

I'll post the comment again, for clarity:

Until we get past this leave/remain, tory/labour, left/right, poor/rich, educated/stupid, selfish/righteous BS we will never move forward as a progressive society.

It's good & necessary to disagree on various things; to demonise someone or to dismiss them entirely because they happened to put their cross in a different box is churlish & counterproductive.

Um, I don't know what I am meant to have vociferously railed against here.

And I'm not sure what I can say to someone who thinks a vote for Brexit was actually a vote for fairer pay for emergency services and better housing.

Just...Oh dear.

I mean, you can't argue with people who just make shit up.

I would say, if you are concerned about a progressive society, try voting for progressive policies maybe?

Interestingly, Angela Merkel is not an advocate of progressive or liberal values.

The much vaunted hero of the EU project has just voted against against gay marriage in Germany:

"...For me, marriage in German law is marriage between a man and a woman and that is why I did not vote in favour of this bill today..."

Germany's laws don't affect us in the UK, just us British laws don't apply in Germany, obviously.

I know some Brexiteers really do struggle with that concept though. They make up stuff like "the EU makes all our laws" which is why I guess they think a vote to leave the EU is a vote for better housing and fairer pay here!

It's weird, right!

They'll learn, I guess!

Thoroughly confused as to where I suggested that German laws applied to the UK.

Perhaps you could point me to that?!

I did, however, comment on how the much loved Angela Merkel - oft cited as a paragon of all that is good & reasonable about high ranking EU politicians - is resolutely anti-equality.

It is especially disconcerting as she wields so much influence within the EU project.

If you understand that we are separate sovereign states then I genuinely don't get either the relevance of your post or why you are so disconcerted...

Especially since you voted for Teresa May who is a famous opponent of gay marriage, no? And especially since she has just spent a billion bribe on the DUP, infamous opponents of all things gay. I mean, anyone who votes for her, can't exactly call themselves pro-equality, can they?

Serbia, Luxemburg and Ireland - all EU members - have gay prime ministers: are you really worried that Merkel will 'wield her influence' and get rid of them?

I'm interested in your point that leaving the EU was your vote for better housing and fairer pay. Was this part of the leave campaign's promises that I missed or something else made up?

I would give up Faith if I were you. There's none so blind as them that waint see, as my FIL is fond of observing

Sorry, I meant European politicians or politicians within the EU, not EU politicians.

I'm interested in your point that leaving the EU was your vote for better housing and fairer pay. Was this part of the leave campaign's promises that I missed or something else made up?

Again, I am somewhat flummoxed as to where I said this.
Perhaps you could link?

I do, however, recall saying that I voted for Leave, and also that I:

"...want fair & representative pay for the emergency services; want the disadvantaged in society to not be demonised & to be supported in a constructive, fair & compassionate way; want Britain to get a grip & start investing in the young through quality education, including apprenticeships, technical & skill based training as well as university; want everybody to have access to safe, secure, warm accommodation; I want many other things besides, but that's off the top of my head..."

They were separate observations, and I did not conflate the two as you seem to be suggesting.

Regardless, I do happen to believe that leaving the EU will not render my other wants obsolete or unattainable.

Mm, when I retorted that a vote for brexit was a vote for all those things, you highlighted that and said yes it was. Glad we have found something we agree on.

Ok, so contrary to what you said earlier you actually don't think a vote for brexit has anything to do with fair and representative pay for fire services or safe housing.

Phew! I thought you were one of those brexiteers who gets all confused and disconcerted about a sovereign states policies - like say on gay marriage- with actual eu legislation!

So we agree on that!

Where we still disagree is that I believe brexit will make your wants extremely unlikely - As we will have rising food prices, a collapsing economy, struggling Nhs: providing secure housing for all or 'fairer pay for emergency workers will certainly not be a priority. It's a shame, things will be very hard.

Where we still disagree is that I believe brexit will make your wants extremely unlikely - As we will have rising food prices, a collapsing economy, struggling Nhs: providing secure housing for all or 'fairer pay for emergency workers will certainly not be a priority. It's a shame, things will be very hard.

We shall have to continue to disagree on that then!

But at least you've come round to the idea that just because someone votes differently to you, it doesn't mean common ground cannot be found.

I'm pleased I was able to help you realise that!

I have looked over my remarks and I have never said or even implied common ground couldn't be found.

y conscience is clear.