To go to the police

[toomuchshit]

As some of you may know I posted last week when a neighbour wouldn't take no for an answer. I've told a couple of people I class as friends (or did) what happened and have had mixed responses.

Im now less raw than I was and now im questioning myself on whether i'm over reacting or not.

I am going to post exactly what has happened and I will read all responses. If people post negatively please dont report it because i need to see all the opinions because in the RW I wont be able to just delete it.

He started messaging me on facebook as neighbours. Just general chat. He would help with my garden because it was just me and I wasnt able to do it. I always offered to pay or id by him cigarette or a few drinks. His parner obviously know about this. He would help with heavy lifting and stuff I needed help with.
I met somebody and he stopped messaging and obviously I didn't need help with stuff anymore.

Once that relationship ended he started messaging me again and said if I ever fancied a chat he was normally out the back. He told me my ex would regret it and would soon realise him mistake because I was so nice. He started messaging just general stuff like asking how i was and what i was doing.
I started a new relationship but he wasn't at mine much so he went back to helping me out with stuff.
He then started joking about coming in for wine and little inuendos. Like if you get too warm ill come help cool you down. Then he asked me not to tell his partner we were talking. At that point I said there was nothing to tell. He said she just would be pissed off because he was messaging nice ladies.

Then he started pushing the chat a bit. I would tell him to behave and he would say hes just messing about and he didn't mean anything by it.
He kept saying he liked it when I was out because it made his day if he saw me. I let him know that my boyfriend really wouldn't be impressed if he knew the way he was talking to me He just said he was offering to "help out when he wasn't about". I said no thanks and I was happy the way it was.
He persisted some more and every time i called him on it i ended up feeling like i had misread it and he was just joking.
He then started asking for a pic without my top on. I said no repeatedly.
He found out my relationship had ended. I wasn't in a good place and to be honest I was drinking more than I should have been. He ended up sending me a dick pic after i told him not to. I told him there was only 1 dick i was interested in doing anything with and I wouldnt do anything that would risk myself and xdp getting back together.
Then 1 night I flirted back and stupidly sent a picture (i dont even remember doing it but it was clear i must have because it was on my phone). I told him I shouldnt have sent it ad I didnt want to do anything. He told me he thought I was perfect and that he would wait for me my response was just lol.
He said he wouldn't force me and he was happy just being friends. I was ok with that. I asked him for some tips on driving because i was going for my first lesson and he said once he got his son to bed he would help me out. It got late so I had a few drinks. He messaged me to tell me he was out the back and asked if i fancied going out and having a drink. I said ok, it was a nice hot night and I only had the 1 bottle left. We stood outside and spoke for a while. Every now and again he asked me to flash him. I repeatedly said no. He was in his garden and I was in mine. There's a communal path separating them so i wasn't that concerned. Just as I had said I was going to head in he climbed the gate and said he would take my bottle to the bin but he said for me to wait a sec till he got back. When he got back he pulled my top out and looked down it then he kissed me. I just froze and couldnt do anything. He was close now and i was scared because I know that no doesn't work i had said it so many times and he hadnt listened. He said to go into the kitchen and I kept saying no. He said the only way ill let you get to bed is if you let me in so I can have a feel. He said it in a jokey way but I was scared so I let him in. He took my top off and groped and kissed my breasts. He put my hand down his trousers and used it to wank with.
There was a noise upstairs and I said it will be the kids needing the toilet. He left and I haven't had a message since

If we rewind to before the assault I mean or if it had never happened . They were flirting as OP said. Some people are making out that it was all one sided and I am disagreeing with that. The OP continually engaged with him. Anyway that's my opinion based purely on what's been written. To go back to the main point yes it was sexual assault yes she should report it if that is what she thinks would be best for her.

He's a horrible man OP, I hope you can move near your supportive friend soon, best wishes x

Please report it. While I agree with others, that this particular incident alone (despite clearly being assault) is unlikely to go anywhere, it could prove to be the missing piece in a current or future jigsaw; he is more than likely behaving like this with other vulnerable people.

"it could prove to be the missing piece in a current or future jigsaw; he is more than likely behaving like this with other vulnerable people."

But there have always been sleazeball men around. Most girls realise it as soon as they begin to be interested in the opposite sex and by the time they're early 20s will have developed strategies to avoid them/give them the brush off. I'm just wondering why the OP hasn't developed the death stare/sarcastic retort/the polite but firm "thanks but no thanks" that most of us have by the time we hit adulthood.

OP, you say that saying no only works for other people. That's not true. I just think you are not particularly self-aware and also need help with some of your social cues etc. Hopefully your counsellor can help you.

"Most girls realise it as soon as they begin to be interested in the opposite sex and by the time they're early 20s will have developed strategies to avoid them/give them the brush off." Curly have you taken a look on the relationship and AIBU boards here where a multitude of woman are talking about their sleazy, cheating, lazy, abusive male partners and longing to be free of them. Women do not all develop excellent shit-man-radar and use it impeccably.

Plus society continually encourages us to be nice and pleasant, not to upset men, or assume the worst!

The OP has been abused in the past, as have many women and I wonder if dealing with that does make it much harder for women to know what is going on with men. Some women will cope one way, some another. Maybe some will optimistically feel that that was a one off and so they will not have their guard up.

But I totally agree with you that the OP is "not particularly self-aware and also need help with some of your social cues".

TheFatOfTheLand 1 night, a picture. Not "..the pics"

"Then 1 night I flirted back and stupidly sent a picture (i dont even remember doing it but it was clear i must have because it was on my phone)."

Re "That will be portrayed by the Defence as playing hard to get."

Correct me if I am wrong, and I am not remotely involved with the police, but I cannot see how the argument of 'playing hard to get', could be part of normal police procedure nowadays with regard to sexual assault.

Please someone tell me that the police don't work on the assumption that women are playing hard to get so men are entitled to assault them?

Whether she met him outside in the dark to drink alcohol with him behind his partner's back is not really the issue since having a beer in one's own back garden is not something that is against the law, and they were both in their own gardens.

He was the one keeping his intentions from his partner; and from his victim.

Italian

I'm talking more about how the courts/Defence barrister will react than the police (as I mentioned earlier). My experience on the police following a sexual assault was many, many years ago but I can assure you the questioning was gruelling. Hopefully it's a lot better now but the OP needs to be prepared.

As for the 1 night and a picture comment, she'd been messaging him for more than one night. I didn't mention flirting. One picture could be enough to damn her in the eyes of a jury, it doesn't have to be an entire portfolio.

NOBODY has said "men are entitled to assault" women Stop making things up ffs.

All I've done is try and point out to the OP how things could/will be portrayed if this gets to court. Presumably the OP wants this to be prosecuted hence going to the police in the first place?

But yeah, go ahead and totally misinterpret my post. Why not accuse me of being a victim blamer/rape apologist while you're at it

Fucking hell Italian, you even quoted my post when I clearly said "the Defence" so why then try to apply the comment to "normal police procedure"

I know how it all works. I've been through it all before. I know that he will probably walk away and I will be the bad one who made things up because surely if he did it he would be found guilty. But I need to try. My head is so fucked up because last time I tried to bury it and move on. It didn't work. It consumed my thoughts, affected my relationships. I know it doesn't sound much to some people but to me it's another case where I said no and wasn't listened to. Where what I wanted didn't matter.

@toomuchshit Yes, he will walk away because the CPS will not take your case to prosecution based on the evidence here.

Did you go to court last time? When I was raped the CPS prosecuted because there was plenty of 'hard evidence' (DNA, internal and external injuries including numerous superficial knife wounds to my throat). I was a 15 year old virgin who was in the top sets at school, from a naice middle class family. Even so I was portrayed by the Defence team as a freaky little underage-drinking (I'd drunk half a can of beer) slut who my attacked alleged claimed enjoyed 'knife play'

I know exactly what you mean about 'what's the point of saying no because it doesn't work'. Even though my attacker was convicted I still knew that saying no wasn't enough and it coloured my relationships for years afterwards so I feel your pain, honestly I do.

The justice system fucking stinks when it comes to sexual assault but that's just how it is.

Having said all of that, I agree with others that you should report this to the Police. There may be others who have already reported him, or who will in the future.

Please contact Rape Crisis and get the help you need to deal with the trauma you've been through

It was a historic case from 15 years previously. No hard evidence just my word against his. He got a not proven verdict.

That must have been hard for you toomuch and it would have been no consolation that it wasn't a 'not guilty' verdict.

I thought my attacker's conviction would make me feel vindicated, allow me to move on in my life. It didn't. This happened to me 36 years ago and only a couple of years back I broke down in tears when walking past the scene of the assault (local graveyard). It never goes away, just hides in your subconscious waiting to hijack you when you least expect it Even typing this out has got me very emotional as it's brought back the way the justice system violated me.

Having said that, I won't let what happened define me as a person. I am not a victim, I'm a survivor

Morning everyone,

We just wanted to remind you all that we don't allow victim-blaming on Mumsnet (we've had to remove several posts) and also link to our We Believe You campaign – please do have a read.

Please do report any victim-blaming posts that you see, and we will take a closer look.

I can't find your previous post but when I read it you said you'd flashed him, you didn't say he came and looked down your top.

You can't find it but your saying I said that I flashed him? I didn't but I am interested to know where you think it says that

Because I read your last post. Have you got the link to it and I'll quote it?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sex/2957382-Why-cant-I-say-no?pg=1

thats it there

Has the original thread been deleted?

I read your other post OP and remember thinking it sounded like you flashed him but think it was just the way it was worded.
I think Namechange owes you an apology.

The original post was written when I was in a bit of a mess, I didn't give much information. This post is exactly what happened and I dint miss any bits out even when they make me look bad.

Ah apologies OP - yes I remember reading the bit below as "I ended up agreeing to,let him in..." so thought you meant you agreed to let him see your breasts. My mistake!

last night he was asking to see my breasts. I kept saying no but he kept asking.... I ended up just agreeing to let him in and he started kissing me.

I just want to say OP, you are the victim here, no question. I completely understand how this could have happened and that feeling of intimidation. You are very brave.

I know how it feels to be coerced and bullied into this kind of situation.

You cant change what happened but you can control what happens from here on - he wont want his wife to know what happened so youre not powerless.

Remove him from facebook, stop messaging him, be polite but not friendly when you see him. Put a distance in place between you and keep it there, he will use any friendliness as a crack to get close to you again.
You dont have to let anyone into your house you dont want to, or be alone with anyone for longer than it takes to immediately leave. And if he tried to "make" you - make a scene! Make it clear he will have to actually fight and assault you to try anything again, and if he does that youll go straight to the police.

These men thrive on fearful women - fearful to upset anyone, fearful to stand up for themselves loudly, fearful that they wont be believed or will get worse results from saying no than from saying yes. You need to try and turn that fear into anger that he would even for a second think that he has some kind of right to do what hes done.

Thats it, I'm scared of upsetting people, I'm scared of assuming somebody is interested in me because really why would they be, I'm scared to stand up for myself. I try to avoid contact with people but at the same time I get very lonely.

You sound very vulnerable and he has taken advantage of that. It's not your fault at all it's totally his. He sounds like a slimy, sleezey predator. It's not you at all. Unfortunately there are a lot of people like him around. You've been let down in the past by people not supporting you. Please go and speak to your GP and tell them how your feeling.