Sunday times article woman who fail at breastfeeding

[daffodil10]

I've just read this article aibu to be so sad that the situation discussed is still happening?

I can completely relate to the author, 14 years ago I was trying my hardest to bf and failed miserably. I had no support, only judgment and criticism. I can't believe that young mums are being given NHS booklets telling them that formula DESTROYS your babies gut when this is not true and only serves to prey on post natally depressed minds.

I was talking to a mum of a two week old baby last night, she was struggling to feed but was terrified of giving formula in case her friends, mil, hv, midwife found out. She couldn't handle the guilt. This is 2017, why is this behaviour by the breast feeding police still allowed????

Not demanding just advising.

Seriously though I might be in different circles to others here but within my circle people ff/bf and no one bats an eyelid at either.

as adult women you make choices. Do it and stop caring about other people's views.

Honestly it's easy. Just do it.

I had the issue with virtually no milk coming in until day 3 after my emcs. Stayed in hospital until day 5 and DS screamed constantly from hunger. On day three after several attempts to painfully pump out milk or milk me by hand, the nurses suggested I gave him some formula. This was done in a way that implied was less than ideal for baby and that it was just a temporary measure for my benefit. I had no choice, though. I wish they just sat down and told me that "destroying the baby's gut flora" was really a very insignificant thing, compared to him just being fed, stopping the constant crying and sleeping a bit more, so I got to regain my strength and that we could bond better. I wish I had also been warned that this was pretty normal with cs, particularly emcs. Instead I felt so sick with guilt, sleeper deprivation and the beginnings of pnd that would last for years, that I still felt I should nearly kill myself playing catch up with pumping between feeds and "topping up" with formula. I am a highly educated and rational person, but at that time I was in no state to make reasoned choices. I was way too emotional. All I needed was support to stop all that and look after myself.

For those on the thread saying that the UK has some of the world's 'worst' rates of breastfeeding - is that strictly true? I remember a couple of years back when statistics were publicised with tabloid headlines shrieking 'UK mothers world's WORST at breastfeeding' (QED re a comment upthread about breastfeeding being a stick to beat women with!) but when you actually read the articles, what the research said was that the UK had the world's lowest levels of breastfeeding AT 12 MONTHS - which is of course a totally different issue to that being discussed on this thread.

Waitforit, fair enough if you don't agree with my point, but i recommend you learn how to spell recommend.

waitforitdear

It isn't as easy as ignoring other people's comments. Not when the comments are so negative about the long-term effects.

When DD was small, I received all sorts of advice that I didn't ask for. I had a women make a very public display in a pool changing room of accusing me of hurting my DD because I was getting her changed for swimming directly on the hard tile floor. "There's a changing table on the wall over there, be a good mum and use that!". I had all sorts of comments about what I chose to dress DD in, whether it was because of the look of the clothes or the fact that my warm baby wore shorts in early summer on a rainy day, and many people thought I was terrible for putting a small child in shorts in the rain. Negative comments will always be there, but in most cases as a parent you know immediately that you know your child best. It's easy to ignore these comments, because they're ignorant and they're just people weighing in with their own unfounded judgments.

Arguments about FF are not the same. Most mums don't believe, early on, that people are making unfounded comments. They've seen the research. They've been bombarded with it from the moment they got pregnant.

I still can't even say for myself that certain things I do aren't going to negatively affect my health somewhere years down the line. No parent of a newborn can safely say 'I'll let their judgmental comment wash over me, because I know FF won't harm my baby", because they've repeatedly been told it will by everyone, including an array of medical professionals, and because they can't see years and decades down the line.

I always let the breast feeding Nazis rant at me about why I'm not breast feeding my baby. I tell them it's physically impossible, they tell me that I'm not trying hard enough. I tell them im not going to try as I know it wouldn't work and it would not be possible my baby is adopted by me. Takes the wind right out of those sails😁

It's the 'by day 3 my baby STILL hadn't had a good feed so I was forced to give a bottle' messages that are so worrying. That is normal and new mums need to be educated/informed that milk doesn't come in until 3 or 4 days post birth.

Silvercatowner. What are you meant to do then leave baby to starve or worse still cry.

I BF my son for 10 days, he screamed for food every hour and I was exhausted My mum came to stay and gave him a bottle, he slept for four hours! It was a revelation, he was happier on formula and was well fed and happy, so I gave up the breast and continued on formula. Both of us were happy and that's what matters.

My DSs are 17 and 14 and with my eldest I was going back to work when he was 12 weeks old so knew I only had limited time to BF. I was so depressed that I couldn't watch Bfing on TV or be I the same room as anyone else as felt such guilt. Took me about 10 years to truly get over it and not feel upset.

With DS2 I had a 3 year old who wanted his mum, no family nearby and I didn't have the luxury of sitting there BF all day.

Guilt again.

Both my boys are healthy, intelligent as well balanced. Moving away from BFing did NOT affect them in the long term at all.

I did however never feed them bought prepared jars or food, and cooked everything from scratch from day 1 of weaning

I don't really understand all the comments re milk STILL not coming in at day3/4. It's not meant to come in by then! I gave DS top ups for the first 5 days as he was a hungry hippo, and then stopped and went back to ebf (can you still call it ebf if you've given top ups?) and that seemed to work fine. He hasn't had any more formula and he's over 6 months now.

Interestingly the midwives on my ward said they were not allowed to actually suggest that you have formula - you (the mother) had to request it and then they could support you. Something to do with promotion of formula rules? So maybe that explains all the posters saying midwives etc were reluctant to offer advice on ff.

Interesting. The midwives we had insisted we top up with formula. It wasn't presented as a discussion at all - and DP was quite out of it on morphine/PTSD and panicked, and they were pretty firm about saying the baby wasn't getting enough from the breast. This was in the early stage, before DP's milk came in.

It's true that milk takes a few days to come in, but I wouldn't be too sure people saying their baby seemed to be struggling on colostrum, are just ignorant of that fact.

I also don't understand the comments about milk not coming in after five days. DD1 I had a Emcs and sepsis. My milk didn't come in till late on day four. They gave me donated breast milk to use on day three. I wonder if more people know about this?

I was put under no pressure by anyone at all to breastfeed. My attitude was if I can I will, if I can't I'll do formula. I was very fortunate that I could but it's not easy and I think people fail to realise every single feed is on you and it's exhausting. I wanted to quit loads but DD1 has a dairy allergy and wouldn't take the special formula so I had no choice to carry on BF.

I fed both my girls to 9 months and it was bloody hard. I fed the second one as I just found it easier than ff with making up bottles etc with a one year old on my hands.

I sincerely couldn't give a toss what other people do, the most important thing is that the baby isn't starving above anything else. But I'm more than happy to offer support for friends trying to feed as it's the only way you can BF I think. With people reassuring you that it's all normal.

I don't think anyone should feel bad because of how they fed their child. I don't feel like a 'failure' for having sections. Rather I feel relieved that i live in a time where medicine saved my baby. Look at it that way and stop all being so hard on yourselves x

If it's such a well known fact, why were the nurses surprised and frankly taken aback by my lack of milk? Why is topping up with formula, if so inevitable, not talked about by all HCP? Even when my milk came in it was nowhere near enough. It was due to my rather deranged full-time efforts with constant pumping and supplements (with a great price to my MH. I also gained a repetitive strain injury from pumping day and night) I had just enough to BF exclusively when DS was 3 months old, but then his health condition necessitated a thickened formula and I was relieved as to finally be legitimately "off the hook".

I don't really understand all the comments re milk STILL not coming in at day3/4. It's not meant to come in by then!

This. Just reading through this thread kind of makes you realise why so many women who want to breastfeed switch to formula - there's a huge amount of misinformation and lack of support, despite the 'breast is best' campaigns.

I agree with a pp that what you don't realise before you start is that the main thing needed is time. Sitting on your arse for hours and hours and just feeding in the early weeks. And if you have a very hungry baby then you may well experience a day of screaming on day 3, just before the milk comes in...which, whilst not pleasant is completely normal and does not mean the baby is being starved.

I breastfed for a few days with dc 1 and 2. Then they dropped slightly too much weight and I was told both times to switch to formula. No advice on increasing supply, no encouragement. So I switched...everything you read is about exclusive breastfeeding and how you mustn't give a dummy or bottle or all is lost. I didn't know that it was possible to 'go back' after that first bottle of formula.

With dc3 (6 weeks), I started mixed feeding at 3 days. We had the common third day screaming -all -day scenario. And I cracked at 4am, after 6 continuous hours and sent dh to Tesco for formula. But this time I perservered. I still breastfed the next day. For 2 days, he had three bottles a day whilst I fed and pumped as much as possible in between bottles. Then he dropped one and now, 6 weeks in he has two 3oz top ups but is mainly breastfed.

I actually think that formula is underused in encouraging women to breastfeed and rather than the breastfeeding campaigners deeming it devils juice, should be encouraging it as an aid to continued breastfeeding.

What are you meant to do then leave baby to starve or worse still cry

You put the baby to the breast as much as possible to encourage milk supply. Baby will be getting small amounts of colostrum - this is fine and what they need at this time. If you offer anything else you risk messing up the supply and demand of your breast milk.

Or.... what Greenhills said.

I think support is so important & I feel there needs to be a lot more honestly around bf. For most people it is tough, milk can come in late particularly after traumatic birth. Your nipples bleed, hard breasts etc. And in the beginning babies feed constantly & it's exhausting. I found nipple shields really helpful initially & I was able to pump once day & produce enough that dh could give a big bottle at night & therefore I could rest. Perhaps they could be more advice on combi feeding. My 2nd is now 5 months & he has 2 bf & 3 ff a day & that works for me.

I think we'd been told too much that milk not coming in was normal and the baby wouldn't starve, and so on.

On about day 3 with DD, I spent a good two hours trying to reason with an absolutely desperate, terrified, tearful post-c-section woman who was determined she was going to throw away the formula we'd been given to feed our DD, and leave the hospital against the advice of the doctors, so she could breastfeed DD at home.

She thought DD was doing fine with just the breast. Neither of us realised how ill the baby was (she was ill with an infection). We didn't have the experience to recognise the signs, and she was, in retrospect, totally off-the-wall with PTSD from a scary labour.

If we'd not been constantly told 'oh, breastfed babies don't starve!' by well-meaning people who think exaggeration is a good communication device, we might have been better able to adapt.

It is all very well to trot out platitudes. But it's important to realise that not all babies are well babies. Not all feeding issues end happily.

I know that sounds like scaremongering, but I do think it matters, too. Of course breastfeeding is great, but we shouldn't be in a situation where women are actually risking their own or their babies' health because they don't want to 'fail' by giving formula.

Oh and I'm one of those who gets fat bf! 😫

It's wierd but where I live no one told me to bf or formula feed - no encouragement not discouragement. I bf my daughter till quite late because I could and because it was free, and also because it was convenient. I'm sure toy bf my son and will do so till he wants to. I would never judge someone who furnula fed and I don't know the that would either.

GreenHillsofHome

I like that.

When I gave up, I was on Day 3. I couldn't cope with the pain any longer. I was still in hospital.

At home I had the contact details of BF counsellors. They'd even called into hospital on my first day of motherhood and booked me in for a home appointment a week later. I'd always planned to contact them if I struggled.

Then, 3 days in, still in that hospital bed and in agony, I surrendered and asked for a bottle. I was getting no rest from the feeding and the pain, and I simply couldn't cope.

Maybe if I'd have mixed bottles with BF I'd have continued on, but that didn't occur to me as an option. Actually after 4 days, the BF counselor was doing her rounds again and when she came to check I would be out of hospital in time for my home appointment, I said "Actually, it'll need cancelling now. I've moved on to formula." She said "Oh", crossed me off the list, gave me a disappointed look and walked off.

Even she didn't suggest that if I kept that appointment, I could learn how to BF better once I was in the comfort of my own home.

In fact, nobody explained to me that I could arrange for a visit specifically for this whilst still on the ward. I only found out once I left the hospital that these BF counselors could provide one of their 'home visits' to mothers stuck in hospital. I could have had the support whilst I was there, but I believed that all hope was lost because I was being ignored by the midwives and I couldn't get home to call and ask for a visit.

Don't regret moving on to FF one bit, but would very happily have done mixed feeding if I'd realised I could and that surrendering on Day 3 didn't mean that by the time I got home a further 3 days later, all was lost.

Jigsaw - it's a shame that they don't tell you it's ok to mix. With my first it was hell during the first week which I now realise it was because he was hungry. This time I was fully prepared to give formula on Day 3/4 if milk was late again.

It seems that attitudes/knowledge/support are no better now than they were some 40 years ago when I had my children.

It’s no good pushing women to breastfeed if the support and information isn’t there. Too often there are posts here that suggest there are HCPs who don’t understand the mechanism of breastfeeding, so aren’t much use to a woman who is struggling.

There also seems to have been fads about tongue-ties – routinely checked for and snipped, then no baby ever had a tongue-tie, now it’s all a bit hit-and-miss depending on where you live.

It’s as though it’s all about the agenda; not looking at an individual mother and an individual baby and figuring out what’s best for both.

DD had a traumatic EMCS birth with DGC. She did well to get breastfeeding established, but that wasn’t without some issues. On one occasion, when DGC was just a couple of weeks old, he wasn’t particularly responsive and the paramedic diagnosed low blood sugar, so off they went to hospital. Several days later, DD phoned me late one night because DGC was very fretful and wasn’t feeding well, so would it be OK to give him some formula? I said that a baby needs energy in order to feed, so one small bottle wouldn’t disrupt her supply but could perk him up enough to get breastfeeding back on track.

It’s not about what’s right and what’s wrong, it’s about what works.

Having said that, there’s an Aptimil advert that always irritates me. It shows a breastfeeding mother, but her denim shirt is pulled down from her shoulder as far as it will go, and she’s clearly not wearing a bra. That sends out the message that in order to breastfeed you have to get semi-naked. That’s an insidious message that could well play into anxieties of new mothers.

I really don’t know what the answer is, except that neither health agendas nor advertising tactics are serving the needs of new mothers and their babies.

@GreenHills hit the nail on the head - so many posts here saying "my milk still hadn't come in on day 3/4!" with no idea this is normal.

I have been EBF my baby for 5 months now - it is absolutely NOT the "normal" way to feed where I live and that's reflected in the reactions to me. Doctors/nurses are the ones who say "you're still BF, great!"

Normal women are horrid about it.

I have had "oh God, you're not going to do that here are you?! Just give her a bottle already!" (In a park with friends with babies).
"Why do you insist on BFing? It's just selfish, give her a bloody bottle like everyone else does." (My PIL's)
"You're not still doing that are you? When are you switching to formula?" (Workmate with children)
"Oh gosh, you poor thing, you can't try getting her to take a bottle? It would be so much more convenient for everyone." (Friend who had a baby 3 weeks ago)
"God I don't know why you bother. It's too hard, you can't go out and have a life of your own and leave it with someone else." (Hairdresser)

The poster who said women bash women was correct.