To think an amnesty needs to be made asap for Grenfall residents

[brexitstolemyfuture]

Mayor Kahan supports this but government officials haven't granted it yet. Surely these people have been through enough without persecution for subletting or visa issues!

Met Det Chief Supt Fiona McCormick just gave a live statement about this issue. To summarise she said: 'We don't want to have any hidden victims. We want to know. We are not going to check people's immigration status if you tell us about them. We want to know who all of them were.'

She was also talking about potential criminal investigations but stressed that they weren't interested in sub-letting or footling shit like that given the scale of the incident.

She didn't look or sound like anyone's bleeding heart push over in case anyone is worrying. She seemed an experienced and senior police officer who has a bit more of a handle on this terrible situation than many of the people on this thread.

Do feel free to check it out

She said there were two points of priority for her - the speed the fire spread and safety arrangements in the building. The police are not fucking around with the little people, many of whom died. It appears they are looking at corporate manslaughter and I think that is entirely as it should be.

Well if it is any consolation for those arguing for an amnesty, I was one of those originally saying no and you have changed my mind. Although I hate illegal subletting you are correct- it is not the big crime here.

Excellent updates : thanks to those posters.

I think you know when Theresa May agrees that it isn't just a bleeding heart liberal viewpoint.

spelling errors in that were really bad sorry smile

It's not your spelling that worries me Flowerfae

news.met.police.uk/news/update-six-fatalities-following-the-fire-in-north-kensington-246230?hootPostID=0fbad87cb60a6781d9d1cf0078121f45
UPDATE: Grenfell Tower fire investigation

This is a link to the latest update direct and unedited from the metropolitan police

Barbarian , I am so happy to hear that reasoned debate and the sharing of facts can lead people to alter views. :)

A&E is free to everyone. So is primary care (a GP). That's what I mean about people who are in fact entitled to care and support under the law being scared to come forward. There will have been people who didn't go to hospital because they were scared of being deported.

I don't see anyone who is resentful and angry about any of the victims, illegal or otherwise receiving handouts and assistance

Probably because - fortunately - there are so few of them?

While I appreciate this is an emotive topic, I've rarely seen a thread with so much deliberate misrepresentation, even to the point of insisting that someone's said something which they certainly have not. Does it honestly not occur to some that folk are able to look at a given set of circumstances, be aware of the key facts but still have a different view to theirs?

Immigration status - yes ignore. But subletting - no! Why should people who were making an unlawful profit from a flat they didn't need, get a new flat and financial compensation when they weren't even living there.

But the actual people occupying should get all the help, whatever their status was either as immigrants or not the actual tenants.

motherinferior I do not want to think about what many of these people saw or heard that night. I can imagine what it must have been to be trapped while it was getting hotter and hotter and contemplating my agonising death while pleading for help and then experiencing it.

I just don't want to.

I think I can find it in my heart for a few illegals to get a bit of help from the NHS - whether physical or psychological.

I often think it on MN but have never said it before but some of you people should be fucking ashamed.

Primary care (GP) isn't free for all. GPs just don't want to be responsible for collecting payment and as they get paid anyway they don't. It is only emergency care and some infectious conditions that are free for all. Even then the emergency care is really only to get you stable enough to travel home. The NHS are just really poor at collecting money and having had the NHS providing free care (for UK residents) for generations we tend not to stomach the thought of refusing treatment to people unless they pay. Most other countries are much more comfortable with this concept.

Limited I often think it on MN but have never said it before but some of you people should be fucking ashamed

Hear hear.

And it isn't just TM agreeing with this, the police do to. So hang your head in shame if you are against this amnesty.

I was just pointing out what the legal situation above re NHS. In this case, if anyone should be paying for the care of injured residents (other than the public purse) it should be the company that installed the dodgy cladding. They should also receive compensation regardless of immigration status (immigration status is irrelevant).

The Guardian is reporting potential manslaughter charges, I hope this does happen.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/23/grenfell-tower-fire-police-considering-manslaughter-charges

" Insulation recovered from Grenfell Tower had been tested, while the tiles tested were the same as those in the building. Both failed the safety tests, with the insulation proving “more flammable than the cladding”.

"the initial cause of the fire was a fridge-freezer and that it was not started deliberately. "

Even with an amnesty many people would still choose to stay off the radar

puzzled I, too, am puzzled...

So few of whom/ what and what is fortunate?

Probably because - fortunately - there are so few of them?

limited period people who think like that have no shame.

I also wonder why some people are so ready to jump to the conclusion that people would deliberately set future fires in order to claim compensation. Is that what they would do? To my mind such comments say more about the poster than those they are talking about.

I think these bigoted, comments should be reported to MNHQ. They are fucking disgusting!

Ifyougodowntothewoods - I reported this thread and some comments to MNHQ last night but heard nothing back, and nothing deleted.

It's funny (well, strange). In the early days (pretty much when the fire was still burning), there was a thread in Feminism about how bad it was that the news reporters were referring to 'firemen' when there were women firefighters as well. I was a bit stunned that an immediate reaction was to comment on the terminology used - but how utterly benign that was compared with the malignancy of some of the posts here

I have reported the 'now fucking way ' / 'These people' post which is till there.

I guess it isn't bigoted : just hateful . we can't make everyone kind.

As Bertrand said in some ways it is best to leave them there so people can see what some people think like.

I often wish I could delete the entire DM comments section. Let's face it the entire paper.

A response from MNHQ: Thanks for reporting and apologies for the delay. We will take a look..

Though I understand pp comment to leave so people can see what some people think. But a number of posts are racist / Islamaphobic and contrary to Talk guidelines.

And can we just forget the idea that this was a block full of poor people, illlegals and ne'redo-wells?

This was a block of ordinary people. There was a mix of residents as there are in all London blocks. Does it matter whether a victim was someone on housing benefit or someone who paid a rent of about £350 to a private landlord? Or had bought their flat under right to buy? They all died the most horrifying death that night that I don't want to think about.

I've seen shit on this thread from posters that I know live hundreds of miles away in detached homes and have no fucking idea of the issues but who've still felt compelled to stick their oar in. I think a quiet period of introspection is required.

Perhaps you might want to read my post again, Piggy?

In response to a PP, I suggested it was fortunate that there are so few posters who appear to me to be "resentful and angry about any of the victims, illegal or otherwise receiving handouts and assistance"

If further clarification is needed, I appreciate that many are cautious about illegal subletters and others - who weren't in the building at all - using the tragedy for their own advantage, but I was pleased that most could see the difference between these and the genuine victims who were there and lost so much that night

People are actually entitled to voice their opinions, though, however reprehensible others may find them?