To think an amnesty needs to be made asap for Grenfall residents

[brexitstolemyfuture]

Mayor Kahan supports this but government officials haven't granted it yet. Surely these people have been through enough without persecution for subletting or visa issues!

I cannot see its relevance to this thread.

It's relevance was that some people will use any means necessary to get what they want.

If you give an amnesty to illegal Grenfell residents, then you will not only get bogus Grenfell claims (which will delay and complicate the claims of genuine victims) but also people that are perfectly prepared to torch a residential building in order to claim similar.

We live in a time where people cause traffic accidents to claim insurance, where people sue over fake food poisoning, where people pretend they were victims of terrorist attacks, and even people claim family members were victims and set up support groups. And these are relatively normal people in the grand scheme of things.

If you give an avenue for an amnesty for illegal migrants after a tragic incident, I suspect you will get a lot more "tragic incidents".

And these fires will not be set by illegals who came to Britain fleeing war or poverty; they will be set by gang-masters and transnational criminals who want to spin a way of getting British residency and who don't give a shit about the people that die in the process.

Okay, maybe I am very cynical. But even in my cynicism, I would never have considered that a London council would allow a residential building to have such poor fire safety protocols and features that it went up like a wad of tissue paper. But that happened, didn't it?

All I am saying is that there are a lot of people out there who are utter bastards, and when you are talking about things like this, you need to consider the "bastard factor."

In my defence, I will say that my DH works in a field where he has a lot of exposure to the "bastard factor", so that probably colours my view.

I don't think there's any official suggestion that illegal immigrants living in Grenfell should be given automatic citizenship - that would be far too open to abuse, not to mention unfair - but rather that their immigration status should not affect any claims for immediate assistance or later compensation.

So there shouldn't be any motivation for people smugglers to set further fires - are you imagining putting twenty people in a HMO and torching it, sacrificing one or two for the sake of papers for the others? I don't think that follows from what's actually being proposed.

Yes, I do think that is astonishingly cynical.

And anyway fire investigators go straight in to establish any grounds for suspecting arson. This was not arson.

This was a disaster and calls for disaster protocols.

There were significant issues but everyone was rehoused after Hurricane Katrina : including my own brother in law.

regardless of who they were and why or how they were resident, not one of them is to blame for that fire.
Given that they are only in the very early stages of the investigation, that is yet to be determined.
There have been cases in social housing properties of people cooking with gas bottles, using BBQs rather than ovens, firepits in the lounge, ripped-off electrical fittings, modified gas appliances, rubbish piled high etc. Often the result of cultural differences, or new arrivals not being familiar with domestic equipment. Access to such properties can sometimes be very problematic often requiring court orders, especially if the tenants have something to hide.

and I am not sure people smugglers want their smuggled to suddenly become legal??

Your argument makes little sense. I feel I may be missing something.

As I said, I did jury duty and it was prostitution, people smuggling, trafficking , car crime to facilitate all this. At no point was any suggestion made that any of this was done to gain some kind of residency. I'm a bit confused.

bartholins : even f that were the case, the ensuing inferno would not be their fault!!

No one seems in much doubt that the initial fire came from a fridge.

And given the very rapidly ordered inspection of all tower blocks, I think it is reasonable to conclude the cladding spread that fire.

Okay, maybe I am very cynical. But even in my cynicism, I would never have considered that a London council would allow a residential building to have such poor fire safety protocols and features that it went up like a wad of tissue paper. But that happened, didn't it?

Given my apparent lack of cynicism that is the bit I easily believe.

Possibly owing to the fact that my DM lived in a towerblock in Glasgow and it was so poorly looked after, pretty squalid and nothing worked. I can believe anything of councils, especially now with all the tendering, the cuts, and the wilful removal of 'health and safety red tape' by government to aid business.

But MrsHathaway, you can't realistically deport any of the illegal migrant victims of Grenfell, nor can you prosecute them for visa issues.

The notion is inhumane, not to mention political suicide. You just can't prosecute or deport people who have survived an inferno of this nature, particularly where a local council is so on the hook for the circumstances of the incident in the first place.

So you have a delicate situation from the off. The best thing would have been here for Khan to keep quiet about the issue, and for the illegal migrant survivors to have quietly been offered help that may or may not have included right to remain and compensation.

But now Khan has sought to make political capital out of the notion, and has put the idea of an amnesty out into the public arena. Whatever happens from this point is bound to become public knowledge, so either you fudge and say there will be no amnesty, while quietly making arrangements on a case by case basis, or you declare the illegals will not be prosecuted or deported. But those people are going to need some status if they refuse to return home of their accord.

It's that public declaration of amnesty that opens the door to future illegal survivors of tragic fires not being prosecuted or deported, which creates a scenario for the "bastard factor."

I mean, we have people smugglers that put hundreds of souls into leaky tin cans and sail them into the middle of the Med where the idea is that the Italian coast guard rescues them before they all drown. Or they pack them into refrigerated lorries where they suffocate. I wouldn't put anything past some of these trafficker/criminal types.

Theresa May has also said this about amnesty by the way.

I think there is a mood to show what is being done and to say it loudly to stop people having a go at them all for inaction.

I still think you're wrong about the deliberate fires : or at least what would motivate them. I agree the 'bastards' might set fires to destroy evidence of illegal immigrants (there was a lorry fir near me which was exactly this) being smuggled but that would be their motivation , not some spurious claim for amnesty...

and I am not sure people smugglers want their smuggled to suddenly become legal??

It wouldn't be for their smuggled human cargo; it would largely be for the smugglers, gang-masters and their relatives and associates.

Say I am Balkan mafia and I've a line in sex trafficking from ex-Soviets into Britain, but I don't have British residency or right to remain. Life would be easier if I did, and it would make my network's criminal endeavours easier to run and I'd be able to expand my side of the business. Plus eventually I could claim a British passport.

Firing a residential building that houses a lot of the illegals my network trafficks is not going to bother me. I'm already used to punching women's teeth in, throwing hand grenades into rival business premises elsewhere in Europe, and chaining teenage girls to radiators. All I need to do is pass myself off as an innocent survivor of said fire, and there's a precedent set that the British government will not prosecute or deport illegal survivors of serious hmo fires. If I refuse to return home, what are they going to do? They have to give me some sort of legal status or risk political wrath.

Job's a good un, as far as I, a twisted bastard of a nasty mafia network, am concerned.

of who they were and why or how they were resident, not one of them is to blame for that fire.

that they are only in the very early stages of the investigation, that is yet to be determined.
There have been cases in social housing properties of people cooking with gas bottles, using BBQs rather than ovens, firepits in the lounge, ripped-off electrical fittings, modified gas appliances, rubbish piled high etc. Often the result of cultural differences, or new arrivals not being familiar with domestic equipment. Access to such properties can sometimes be very problematic often requiring court orders, especially if the tenants have something to hide.

^^

Shameful shameful speculative victim playing

Corday these criminals really don't need inspiration. if this was such a brilliant wheeze they would already be at it .

And legal precedent is extremely complex and would have to be argued through lawyers.

There have been cases in social housing properties of people cooking with gas bottles, using BBQs rather than ovens, firepits in the lounge, ripped-off electrical fittings, modified gas appliances, rubbish piled high etc. Often the result of cultural differences, or new arrivals not being familiar with domestic equipment. Access to such properties can sometimes be very problematic often requiring court orders, especially if the tenants have something to hide

None of that changes the fact that the fire should have been contained to one flat. It wasn't because the cladding lit up like a roman candle. Regardless of how the fire started that was not the residents fault and should not have happened.

Bartholin - that is a fucking disgusting thing to say

piggy You have to admit that these people are very reactive to changes in policy though.

Once they realised the Med coast guard forces would save illegals in peril on the sea, they stopped even bothering to pretend to get those migrants even half way to the opposite shore. It became basically just about setting an overloaded dinghy adrift on the waves with people wearing life jackets full of cotton wool.

And every ruse that can be found is taken advantage of in this game: fake marriages; fake papers; false claims about age, religion, sexuality, nationality. You have powerful criminal enterprises running riot when it comes to illegal immigration into Europe, and they have no ethics at all.

@mrshathaway there are people smugglers who are deliberately putting people on boats that are not shipworthy as they know that a boat in distress will be helped by the coast guard of whatever unlucky European country'waters it starts sinking in. There are people smugglers who are charging their human cargo extra for life jackets that do not work to create in them a false sense of security. And you think they may get a sudden attack of conscience and not invent ways to promote a way in which their customers may get a right to stay in the country? These smugglers work in syndicates and they can command a lot of money if they can help the desperate get what they want or at least spin it to the desperate that this may be a possible way. An uneducated desperate migrant is not likely to have done the research and know arson investigation will expose the plot. What he will have heard through the grapevine and sold to him by smugglers is that a bunch of illegals were allowed to stay becuase they lost everything in a fire. Just like the idea sold to many desperate migrants that if they land in UK they will be given a house , free education and well paid jobs are plentiful in gold paved London.

I think I have heard it all - Grenfell Tower fire will encourage illegal migrants if tenants with dubious immigration status Are rehoused ..

Interesting that a PP mentioned Hurricane Katrina - I wonder if there are any lessons to be learned from the widespread fraud and criminality which followed that disaster?

If I'm not mistaken, even their mayor was jailed ...

"I think I have heard it all - Grenfell Tower fire will encourage illegal migrants if tenants with dubious immigration status Are rehoused .."

Aridane- aplarantly it will also engcourage illegal immigrants to set fire to their houses to get citizenship........

I think these bigoted, comments should be reported to MNHQ. They are fucking disgusting!

I'm beginning to think all the publicity The Daily Fail gave MN brought a few too many of the hard of thinking over to MN.

Re all the former war criminals apparently running around London: the irony is anyone high up in a corrupt and autocratic foreign regime will probably already own at least one London property (in Kensington or similar) as part of the standard investment portfolio for anyone in that position (many British banks will be only too happy to help with this) so should they ever decide to relocate to Britain I doubt very much that they would need council housing in a tower block...

I don't think they should be deleted. I think when people show the sort of person they are, it should stay up for all to see,