To think an amnesty needs to be made asap for Grenfall residents

[brexitstolemyfuture]

Mayor Kahan supports this but government officials haven't granted it yet. Surely these people have been through enough without persecution for subletting or visa issues!

Key spellings for MN:

KHAN

CORBYN

HTH

I support the idea of an amnesty in principle, but I don't think it would work in practice. After 911 loads of scummy scammers came forwards to fraudulently claim benevolence money for invented relatives. People falsely claimed to be at the Ariana Grande concert that was bombed to get tickets to the benefit gig. A small number of scumbags will take advantage of a tragedy, by seeing a loophole of opportunity for personal gain. An amnesty gets us no closer to the truth and may even set it back.

The situation at Grenfell Tower, before the fire, will have been messy. Layers of subletting and sub-subletting going back years, poorly managed tenants' lists, rent a room, sofa surfing, Mon - Thurs lets, airbnb, mini dorms of undocumented overseas workers. There's a black economy in the labour market, and it's just as reflected in the housing market. Part of the legacy of this tragedy is that the inferno took a snapshot of life in one community in modern Britain. Everyone who was there that fateful night got caught up in a tragedy that was decades in the making by various policies and political philosophies that have shaped the legislative and governance frameworks over the years. Sadly the identities of many of the deceased will never be able to be acknowledged or recorded. We have such a patchwork of housing situations at the sharp end of the market, and it means so many get pushed through the cracks.

If the amnesty were simply linked to the investigation, and not access to long term housing or indefinite leave to remain I could be behind it, but I don't see how you'd separate them out.

The legacy moving forwards must be to crack down on unregistered subletting. People breaching rules for personal gain runs from the bottom to the top has contributed to this tragedy. Subletting won't have caused it per se, but contributed to extra people causing panic on the stairwell as well as the impossible task of ascertaining identities.

"I don't like him for shallow reasons; he's a bit smug and vain"

How on earth do you know? Do you know him personally?

I like Khan but if we can't call politicians smug unless we know them personally then we might as well pack up MN and go home.

I can understand not liking him but calling for his immediate resignation? I couldnt personally stand old Boris but he was democratically elected so that's that really.

No, just how he comes across. Are you this defensive of all politicians? They kind of put themselves out there for criticism, it comes with the territory. I'm almost certain he doesn't give a shit how many mumsnetters dislike him though.

Yes

probably also have to accept one or two opportunists may slip through the net but it's worth it to help all those genuinely in need

If we could be sure it really would be "one or two opportunists" then I'd agree, but the experience of posters such as AnneElliott, who tells us she works in a related field, suggests otherwise

There are always a lot of people falsely claiming things (look at the 5x rise in people claiming poisoning on holiday and people crashing into others to claim whip lash - there is a massive fake claim culture out there sadly) but hopefully we can sort out who is who in this very sad current situation.

Of course there should be an amnesty. FFS.

I watched in horror as the tower burned. It was an horrific tragedy that remains the responsibility of the council for putting asthetics above safety.

I cannot imagine what happened there that night. So many lives lost and families decimated. For those immigrants who were here illegally to have escaped Syria and the like to die in an inferno is so sad.

I agree with an amnesty. As a society we are facing one of the biggest challenges for decades, the rise of daesh and the huge migration from North Africa of refugees. We as a one country cannot absorb the tide of displaced people. There seems to be a lot of fear and worry. But prior to word war two we took boatloads of refugees from Poland and Jewish peoples who escaped the nazis. Why are Syrians different? Because they aren't white? I really hope not.

We are talking about a small number of people who have probably lived through more trauma in their lives than we could imagine. Yes they shouldn't be here illegally but surely human compassion should prevail. And also common sense, if they are a known criminal in their own country, wanted by Interpol etc then obviously due process should be adhered to.
But I suspect the majority are frightened ordinary people.

Apparently there weren't tents. It was one of the major shortcomings and oversights of the local council .There wasn't an official easily recognised place for survivors to report themselves safe and to seek advice.

Because the Red Cross leap into action very quickly in earthquake zones etc. and less developed countries, such things there are highly organised. here, in the UK, in 2017 : shambles.

We really mustn't minimise this as 'just another fire' (not keen on the word tragedy either, as it sounds a bit romantic to me). In the 1880s over 100 poor people perished in a theatre fire in Exeter. the blitz aside, only the Bradford fire claimed many lives - and that was at least 20 less than Grenfell. It's an appalling loss of life Hillsborough, Zeebrugge, Aberfan : all disasters which tried to deflect blame and demonise some of the victims to begin with and ignore criminal responsibilities. All led to huge changes, and towards the right people being held responsible and culpable.

But how would survivors know what some chancer is claiming? It was a huge block, people probably moving in and out all the time. You wouldn't know everyone on your floor, let alone on floor _. And people will be rehoused all over the place. They wont know what other people have been allocated.

Whatever happens, the council is going to need a more vigorous vetting scheme than one based on the hope that false claimants are 1. Recognised as such 2. Reported.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that everyone who rocks up and says "I lived at Grenfell" will be automatically given a free house and UK citizenship no questions asked.
Amnesty or no amnesty, it will be hard in some cases to identify the genuine claimants from the chancers. But I still think that people identified as illegal immigrants/unofficial tenants as a direct result of coming forward with information should not have that information used to prosecute/deport them.

Anyone who thinks the council will just hand out a free house to anyone who shows up has obviously never had any dealings with local government.

Hard enough to get any of the shit you're entitled to, let alone being able to defraud them.

Even if a few people do slip through the net, I'd rather that than have people deported because they are trying to give information.

Still wondering why people loathe Khan.........

Sadiq Khan has it absolutely right. We cannot have a situation where people are frightened to find out whether someone they love has died because they are worried about the consequences. Giving amnesty to what in practice will be in the region of 20-30 people, some of whom will be dead or very seriously injured, cannot set any dangerous precedents or harm our country in any way.

^ This

Noone is going to see the UK as a 'soft touch' because the relatives of people who were burned to death in a fire were allowed to report them missing without fearing prosecution or deportation. Jesus.

These people have been subjected to a man-made disaster of horrific proportions. It's likely to be the worst of its kind in peacetime in the UK. Compassion, and also practicality, are called for. We need people to report everyone who was in there. If that means not prosecuting or deporting a tiny number, so be it.

Theresa May said today this is effectively what will happen. Not a whole amnesty/citizenship, but no action regarding refugee status for those affected by Grenfell.

To Op: Yes of course.

If I were in charge of the amnesty I would mean that people can come forward anonymously to report family, friends and neighbours as being missing.
Some posters on here seem to think 'amnesty' means random criminals from all over the world will be granted a free pass to commit any crime they like in the UK.

Mayor Sadiq Khan has it right.