To think an amnesty needs to be made asap for Grenfall residents

[brexitstolemyfuture]

Mayor Kahan supports this but government officials haven't granted it yet. Surely these people have been through enough without persecution for subletting or visa issues!

Precedents?

Jesus wept!

Are you saying that we are going to get more tower blocks burning down with residents killed in large numbers happening on more than one occasion?

That's the point. Its a one time only thing based on events which should never be allowed to be replicated in any way shape or form.

"If you normalise this"

How can this be normalised? How often does such a horrific incident occur for it to be normalisable?

Maybe I was at fault for not making myself clear ... when I mentioned a precedent it wasn't any future fire I was thinking of (god forbid ) but the possibility of future housing fraud

Problem with the amnesty is people WILL take the piss. I don't mean the people who don't live in the flats, but people who live elsewhere and will 'claim' to live in a flat. Oh I stayed in this flat. The room was let to me, I paid in cash. It was a flat on the top floor. It would be hard to find those who are genuine and those who aren't.
I do agree something needs to be done so the figure are accurate, but how that would work I have no idea.

Question for those so opposed to ONE OFF AMNESTY:

If you found yourself to be a crucial witness to a very serious crime (say, a murder) but coming forward means you have to admit to a more minor crime (for example, driving in a bus lane or purchasing a small amount of cannabis), do you think that you should be punished to the full extent of the law for the crime you admitted to, which the authorities would not have known about had you not brought it to their attention with your testimony?
I think not.

What about a dog walker illegally trespassing on land who finds a body? Surely reporting the body should not land them in trouble for trespassing (given that the only evidence for the trespass is the dog walker's reporting of the body).
Discretionary amnesty is often granted for minor crimes, or for those where prosecution is deemed to be "not in the public interest".
Of course, if you repeat the offense in the future you would be punished to the full extent of the law.

What MotherofBleach said, basically.

So if a non-resident comes forward they won't be charged, but they also won't get a new flat. If they don't come forward they'll get a new flat. I don't think the amnesty will encourage many to come forward.

Exactly.

Looking at the new block of flats for the fire victims, someone is going to have to be a really good person to pass up one of those in favour of doing the right thing and admitting they were subletting. I don't know how someone could sleep at night sitting in (or illegally subletting again) their multi-million pound flat whilst knowing that there were unidentified victims in their Grenfell flat, but unfortunately human nature is greedy and opportunistic.

BigYellowJumper
Do you really think it is fair that some families will never know what happened to their relatives because they are too scared to come forward because they were there illegally?

I agree with SootSprite and it's nothing to do with fairness, if people want to know what happened to their relatives it's their choice, they simply need to come forward and if they are here illegally, face the consequences.

Also, don't underestimate how wary many people, especially people who've had to move to this country and been given grief about it, are of 'the authorities'. And now they don't have their papers and documents even if they did have them.

It will be difficult Lady.

But if it that subletter was then found out to have not only sublet out their appartment, but to then have continued with the lie even when they had the opportunity of amnesty, and to have compounded the fraud by claiming a multi-million pound flat, the law should come crashing down on them so hard they wont know what hit them. And if you think about it, there will be people who know and resent what they are doing, who may well report them. Amnesty only applies to those who voluntarily come forward. Choosing not to take advantage of the amnesty in order to gain materially is one hell of a gamble to take.

Rorty:
The problem is that they are not so much "facing the consequences" of being here illegally, they are facing the consequences of admitting to being here illegally in order to provide the authorities with the information they need to effectively investigate the incident.

And if you think about it, there will be people who know and resent what they are doing, who may well report them

Yes, I can't imagine other residents being very sympathetic to them or surviving sublettees being happy they are left homeless while their LL gets a brand new flat to sublet out again.

Choosing not to take advantage of the amnesty in order to gain materially is one hell of a gamble to take

But is it? Let's not forget we're always being told how "stretched" those who do the checking are and how "underfunded" everything is; if we add to that the chaos surrounding this tragedy, I'm not sure it's such a huge gamble really - at least, not enough to dissuade plenty from taking the chance

There are some vile, narrow minded, emotionless wankbadgers on this thread. Hang your heads in collective shame.

"nothing to do with fairness, if people want to know what happened to their relatives it's their choice, they simply need to come forward and if they are here illegally, face the consequences."

Wow harsh.

Thank god we don't have any need for death row executioners in our country but if we did I'ms sure there would be no shirt of applicants judging by this thread.

I will just assume that it is ignorance rather than inherent maliciousness that makes people think the Grenfall residents are faced with an extraordinary set of circumstances. Off to do something positive in rl because frankly the attitude of some posters on this thread is rotten.

LLG...and some prancing virtue signallers.

Say again?

*Thank god we don't have any need for death row executioners in our country but if we did I'm sure we would not be be short of suitable applicants judging by this thread.

virtue signallers bingo only took 11 pages. and now DFOD thisgirlisonfire

.....And hyperbolic posters

Words and phrases I never need to read again:

"Virtue Signalling"

thisgirlisonfire your username is fucking disgusting.

I'm guessing goady fucker or fucking hairy troll.

I just googled subletting. First of all, councils do seem to make an effort but it is a difficult process. One factor is that a lot of social housing is dealt with not by the councils themselves but by housing trusts, which apparently are not so diligent about checks on tenancies.

Furthermore, back in t'olden days, blocks of flats would have caretakers and a local housing officer, and between them they could identify who was not living there and who was living there but not supposed to. Nowadays there aren't resident caretakers and rents etc are centralised so no local housing officer familiar with what's what. Moreover some of the flats have been bought so the owner can do what they like with it. Plus AirBnB complicating things too.

This from 2012: www.channel4.com/news/100-000-council-homes-in-hands-of-tenancy-cheats

I don't think it even means what most people seem to use it to mean.

Isn't it more like for people who post online about how wonderful they are because they signed a petition to save the whales, rather than for people who don't think people should be booted out of the country because they want their dead relatives to be identified?

I think it's just one of those phrases that people use when they aren't very good at arguing things so they just use a pat phrase instead of an actual argument.

Above post re virtue signalling.