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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask your advice on wether it's worth taking my Neighbours from hell to court?

658 replies

Totallyattheendofmyrope · 21/06/2017 21:04

I've had threads on here about my neighbours from hell.
We've been threatened, sworn at harassed and our visitors harassed.
We have involved the police who initially wanted to issue a harassment order against said neighbours but were overruled by their superior officer who said " it never ends well in neighbour disputes" Confused
The actual abuse has reduced significantly though we still endure low level harassment.
I'm keeping notes etc as recommended by the police.
I've pushed for mediation and have met with the mediator however neighbours are stalling and I doubt very much they will attend.
Currently the favourite form of harassment is to park their vehicles to make it quite difficult for me to park. I can get in and I can get out but I do dread weekends and I dread coming home as I'm always so anxious about what they will have done and will I be able to get in ok etc.
I have checked my deeds and they are blocking my "easement ' and it states in the deeds that no one is allowed to do anything to hinder another's ingress and egress.
Currently the neighbours are freely enjoying and utilising the easement I honour and provide them with on my land.
So- Aibu to consider starting legal proceedings or am I just feeding into their crazy?
What would you do?

OP posts:
Totallyattheendofmyrope · 28/07/2017 13:51

Thanks everyone Flowers

The thing is- I don't want to fuck up his life- Sad
I just want them to leave us alone.

The officer has warned us that ndn has accused me of swearing at her - this 100% never happened- I've said it before and I'll say it again- at no point have I even so much as stink eyed her or her family- nadda - zilcho... absolutely zero nothing from our side.
I suppose the fact that I swore like a sailer today has me worried it adds legitimacy to her claim.

OP posts:
Totallyattheendofmyrope · 28/07/2017 13:54

I think the officer was letting me know that they will expect them to try to reticulate with counter claims iyswim.

I told the officer that despite the ndn best efforts it would not be happening and that there would be no retaliation from our side.

However there may be from ndn and at this point I'm worried where the fury may take them.
I suspect that one of them may end up in prison before they'll stop.

OP posts:
hmcAsWas · 28/07/2017 14:15

Wow - I have just read this whole thread and its incredible the perverse motivations of some people.

MandateMandy · 28/07/2017 15:27

Now that an actual harassment order has been served on him is it worth contacting his employer (the ethics one) to let her/him know that one of their senior team is under a harassment order. It can't be construed as harassment - just stating a fact.

fuckwitery · 28/07/2017 15:32

Just read the whole thread. Wow! Really feel for you and hope the harassment order has a positive effect on their behaviour and you can get on with your lives!

Totallyattheendofmyrope · 28/07/2017 16:02

Mandy-

The harassment order has not been served yet- the sergeant informed me it will be next week- however I will hold my breath until then..bitter experience
Once it is served I think we will wait and see what happens- if they leave us alone I will hang back.
I do not want to get them in trouble- I just want to live peacefully.

If the behaviour kicks of again in one month or 2 or 10 then all bets are off.

It's not insignificant to get a harassment notice.

I do hope it impacts them- it really should

OP posts:
shallichangemyname · 28/07/2017 16:06

I think what they are going to serve is a PIN, which is a "Police Information Notice". I've come across these in my profession, where they tend to be used tactically by ex partners.

The PIN is an informal way the police have developed of dealing with low level or unproven harassment claims. They are obliged to prioritise stalking/harassment complaints, but many are low level and borderline and rather than do nothing, the other option is to warn the accused (and this is what a PIN is for). Most have the desired result: the complained of behaviour stops. For the ones that don't, they are then used as evidence in any prosecution that the accused was put on notice of the complaint, was warned to stop, and was made aware of the criminal offences under the Protection from Harassment Act.

The PIN is meant to be a simple warning. It has no official status (it is not anything like a caution). Due to its lack of status it should theoretically be pretty meaningless, however it isn't and it stays on someone's record for a year. The reason it is "meaningless" is because it is served without any findings or real investigation. However, it goes on the national and local police data bases and most people assume it is a bit like a caution and it scares them into backing off.

The PIN will record that a complaint has been made, what the complaint is and it explains the offences under the Protection from Harassment Act, and that if the behaviour continues then they will be committing a criminal offence and they may be prosecuted. Where the harassment continues, it's used as evidence to avoid the offender claiming they didn't know it was harassment.

Most PINs have the desired effect of nipping these sorts of things in the bud.
In your case I'm not sure it will have any effect, because the police have already been involved and it's done nothing.
Once a PIN is served it can only be withdrawn if an official police complaint is made, and successful complaints are very rare.
I actually think that your case is worthy of much, much more, but if it's what the police have decided there isn't much you can do other than carry on evidence gathering and reporting further acts of harassment.

Google PINs and the Protection from Harassment Act - there's an awful lot of information out there for you to fully educate yourself. Having read what there is, you may feel that this is something you can push further with the police.
I think a caution would have been much better. Something much more formal and scary than a PIN. But they may have already had advice from the CPS that there is currently insufficient evidence to prosecute (and therefore the PIN may be the only other option - although they could presumably have given a caution, but of course the accused has to agree to accept the caution (I think)).

shallichangemyname · 28/07/2017 16:08

If the police anticipate a counter-complaint, you might find that you also get served with a PIN.

If you do, refuse to sign for it and refuse to accept it and go in and complain.
But, like the neighbours, the PIN will be recorded on the local and national databases for a year. The best you can do is ask for a note to be put on it that you refused to accept it and deny the allegations being made.

Totallyattheendofmyrope · 28/07/2017 16:44

The police will not serve us with a pin, WE HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING, and we never will Winesorry for shouting Grin

Ndn can say what they want but it's not true so they have no proof and god knows they've done so much shit to us & we have evidence and it's only now they're getting a pin.
I know the police are accused of using it to easily but I can assure you in our case it's been the opposite.

Wine
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shallichangemyname · 29/07/2017 17:20

I agree with you OP. However, I have experience of unfounded complaints being made and a PIN then being served with no investigation at all. PINs are open to abuse. There's been a Home Office Select Affairs Committee report into the whole thing. As I have professional experience of them and their misuse in some situations I thought it would be wise to warn you. Didn't mean to wind you up!!! And I didn't mean to imply you have done anything wrong.

shallichangemyname · 29/07/2017 17:20

And I hope the wine helped! Flowers

Totallyattheendofmyrope · 29/07/2017 17:34

shall

I definitely didn't feel wound up... just a bit drunk Blush.

I really appreciate you taking the time to post and giving me the benefit of your experience.
Thank you StarFlowers

Oh and the wine is still helping Wink

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Thunderthighs11 · 29/07/2017 18:16

Crickey, I've just finished reading the full thread and I'm surprised you're not on the wine full time
So sorry you're going through this, it's unbelievable
Any update on the application for a new drive?

Totallyattheendofmyrope · 29/07/2017 18:31

I've had people out about the possibility of a new drive- council approved builders who think it shouldn't be a problem...
However I would need to apply for planning permission because of the size of council owned area I'd need tarmacking.
It will cost approx £1000 for the architects drawings and the planning application...and it may not be approved.
If it is approved by planning it will then go to the traffic management for approval.
I'm currently reaching out to some council workers to try and get a visit from the traffic management people to give me an idea of whether it will be possible before I apply to planning iyswim

Of the pin is served it may help my application

OP posts:
picklemepopcorn · 29/07/2017 19:18

I'm so sorry to hear this is still going on. I've been thinking about how you manage your emotional well being until this is resolved. I honestly think they will get bored eventually, if you can carry on being unresponsive.

Have you tried parking away from the house, so they can't see you struggling to park?
I think it's a good idea to make it clear that you aren't using your space any more- a paddling pool or basket ball net, lovely set of flowers or something. Not positioned to inconvenience them, just making it clear you aren't parking there any more.

It's worth going to a councillor to get some strategies on reframing the situation so you feel better about it. The video on fast forward with benny hill music is a good one- not posted publicly, just to defuse your anxiety!

Try and be publicly popular- cultivate relationships with the other uninvolved neighbours. Write a letter to the set in between you, explaining that you don't want them to get caught up in the middle. That you have behaved well and are trying not to escalate things, but due to the attack on your daughter and her friends (perhaps their parents complained!) police are now involved.

Try talking to your daughter about 'how odd people can be', that sometimes you just have to shrug and say 'how peculiar!'.

You and DD could wear those big headphones every time you leave the house, pretend you are listening to music, so their comments jeers and laughter are easier to ignore.

BlueUggs · 29/07/2017 19:34

We had horrendous issues with our neighbours in a flat. They threatened to kill us, played loud music all night and it culminated in them torching my car.....on cctv!! They didn't get charged because they were done for more serious crimes which were being investigated at that time and nothing to do with us.....
We sold our flat and disclosed everything, but also made it clear it was personal to us. It's not impossible to sell even with theses issues going on. We got a good price too....

hmcAsWas · 30/07/2017 11:57

Torched your car BlueUggs! Shock. Wow I am lucky to have led a sheltered life...

mistlethrush · 31/07/2017 18:33

I'm sorry to hear that this is still going on and has escalated to assulting your daughter and her friends.

YouDancin · 02/08/2017 10:39

Oh Totally have the police served them with the order yet?
So frustrating.
You said you don't want to go to his work to ruin his life but they are going exactly that to you. For months now they have harassed you and your family. The effect on your health and mental well-being is significant. I'd be using all my ammunition to get them to stop.
I hope they do.
Also what the HELL are the police waiting for? They only have to do a drive past every.single.day. to see how they park and behave.
Hugs to you for not losing it!

Totallyattheendofmyrope · 02/08/2017 11:51

The police have still not served them yet Confused
I feel the same, youdancing , but I suppose in the scheme of things I'm not a high priority and if 10 more immediate incidents happen in a day then our predicament gets pushed to the bottomSad

There have been days when I have wanted to exact revenge. It does feel so unfair, they don't have to put up with being intimidated or their dc coming home crying. It's been quite distressing and scarey for my dd to be on the receiving end of adult aggression.
The issue is if I allow myself to behave inappropriately then I will be just like them won't I?
Where has their anger and rage got them so far?
I see no joy in their life, they spend all their time plotting and scheming... making false police reports Angry intimidating, lying..ffs if they put half that energy into trying to address what the real problem is in their lives they would be much happier - I'm sure.
I'm so much better than they are and so are my family, I will not let them have even 1 tiny piece of my integrity.

I am determined that we will be victorious/-but the right way and by staying inside the laws of decency and legality.

Also I'm drinking lots Wink

OP posts:
shallichangemyname · 02/08/2017 17:03

I'm mystified by this. Govt policy is for all claims of stalking and harassment to be prioritised. Every PIN I've ever heard of has been served within a couple of days. Policy is also to keep the victim closely informed and supported.

Can you call them and ask to be given a policy of their Force's policy on harassment/stalking and on victim communication and support? You may find it's on the internet. As is all the policy stuff about the duty to prioritise these types of complaints.
I think the police are being very lackadaisical about this and they need their cage rattled. If nothing else it empowers the neighbours for a PIN to be served weeks later. It sends out a loud message that it isn't being taken seriously.

Totallyattheendofmyrope · 05/08/2017 08:07

Well it appears that our twatty neighbours have gone on holiday and being the thoughtful and generous people they are they've installed her parents and their two vehicles at the house to continue the harassment in their absence Sad
No holiday for us then...
The grandad was out on the drive intimidating my daughter and her friends staring them out etc so they felt uncomfortable and came inside.
Yesterday dh and I were cycling to the gym and the grandad started clapping so we'd look and began shouting at us...all I could make out was fucking twats at the end.
I went down to the station and had it out with the officers. They've pretty much fucked up tbh, they've not even interviewed the girls about the hosing... they've decided they're going to serve a pin and left it at that. The officer serving it has been off sick this week that's why it's not been done. They've asked us to call them when they get back and they'll serve immediately.

On another track my dh received a big promotion yesterday which is great news and we celebrated considerably last night Envy

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ShakespearesSisters · 05/08/2017 11:03

They really are prize idiots, sending you positive vibes x

mistlethrush · 05/08/2017 11:59

How frustrating! Will the notice cover everyone at the house -including parents?

Totallyattheendofmyrope · 05/08/2017 13:56

Yes- the notice will be for everyone including grandparents.
Can you imagine that? Grandparents getting an asbo ... really really grim Sad

OP posts: