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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

giving a 15yo alcohol?

141 replies

user1494161156 · 20/06/2017 08:47

I hosted a big family gathering recently, and at dinner I gave my 15 year old niece one glass of white wine. An in-law was absolutely shocked by this and told me off after my niece had left. She basically said it amounted to child-abuse. My niece's parents weren't there and admittedly I didn't ask their permission to give her wine, but they are sensible people and I'm sure they wouldn't object.

I'm really astonished that anybody would think that giving a 15 year old a very small amount of alcohol, with food, while at home surrounded by older family members, was dangerous. I think it's much safer for kids to learn to drink sensibly and enjoy alcohol for the taste, rather than getting dangerously smashed on cheap vodka for the sake of it as soon as they turn 18.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Oliversmumsarmy · 21/06/2017 08:44

*Or maybe forcing abstinence will stop them drinking all together.

Good luck with that approach*

Actually working well. But I dont drink so I am not being hypocritical.

I have known many people who you would consider to be either heavy drinkers or full blown cirrhosis of the liver alcoholics they all had parents who demystified alcohol at a young age.

I wonder if there has ever been a survey which studied the age some one first was allowed to have alcohol with a meal by their parents to their drinking habits throughout the years.

endelessworries · 21/06/2017 08:51

coconuttella

Yeah, definately drinking from a early age makes an adult mature! I thought a good job, responsibilities, paying the bills and being reasonable -like do not offer alcohol to someone else's child- would make an adult mature. Many thanks for opening my eyes

Mummmy2017 · 21/06/2017 09:08

Never allowed to drink as a child, so of course we drank when out at pubs at 16, I turned 18 and it was like why am I doing this, as I prefer a soft drink.

20 years later I decided my children can have a mouthfull of drink, and as they get older special occasions and things a half glass,

A cider in a bottle with a curry, and other times different drinks, a try of bayleys at Xmas, my older children might grab a drink in a pub , but the second is always a soft drink their choice no pressure.

They said being able to have a drink, meant it wasn't as much fun to sneak a drink, and so they can be in a party and not even want it...

Clalpolly · 21/06/2017 09:19

Leonard - so puberty and all the hormonal and biological changes that go with it is just some bollocks made up in a newspaper article?
You said you were a scientist.

It stands to reason that adding alcohol to that mix is one that should be done with considerable caution.

And the lack of maturity when faced with an addictive substance is also a factor to consider.

Caution, common sense and reasonable restraint are not bad things.

Mercime · 21/06/2017 09:32

I thought there had been recent research showing that children who were allowed to try alcohol at a young age had far more drink problems than those who weren't?

I barely drink and nor does dh. So offering wine with Sunday lunch doesn't happen as we don't have any!! I am sure this isn't going to turn our kids into raging alcoholics!

endelessworries · 21/06/2017 12:11

My parents don't drink
I don't drink
My siblings don't drink and my nieces never were given alcohol by their own parents. We are pretty normal people. It's not the end of the world someone that doesn't like and forbides alcohol at home.

Mercime · 21/06/2017 12:15

according to mumsnet your kids will be drinking bottles of cheap brandy by the time they are 16 endelessworries

leonardthelemming · 21/06/2017 13:17

Leonard - so puberty and all the hormonal and biological changes that go with it is just some bollocks made up in a newspaper article?
You said you were a scientist.

It stands to reason that adding alcohol to that mix is one that should be done with considerable caution.

Taking your second point first, why does it "stand to reason"? Where is your evidence to support this statement? I am trying to present a reasoned argument, based on such reliable research as is available. I try not to make statements that I cannot back up.

Now to address your first point. No, I did not say that puberty is made up, so perhaps you should read my post again. Nor did I say I am a scientist. What I actually said was that I am scientifically trained. In my case this is because I have a first degree in a science subject (but not biology - I made that clear, I think).
I also - and this is relevant - have an MA in education. It's relevant because it was a research degree, which means I am very well aware of the difficulties which researchers face when trying to obtain reliable results.

I am including a link to an interesting article which you may like to read. However, I would also like to draw your attention to the American Surgeon General's call to action to Prevent and Reduce Underage Drinking. You can find it on the Internet and download it.
The main concern expressed therein is that alcohol has an adverse effect on an individual's ability to make decisions. This can lead to, for example, participation in unsafe sex, suicidal thoughts, and driving while intoxicated. It does not address issues of the developing brain to the same extent.

This may be because most of the research has used rodents or non-human primates as the research subjects, and the effects on brain development have only become apparent when the subjects have been binge-drinking. Only recently has it been possible to study real teenagers using specialised MRI scanning techniques - this is what the linked article describes. Results so far do not seem to provide any conclusive evidence to suggest that moderate drinking has any effect on brain development but they do cast some doubt on the validity of the accepted wisdom.

So, the jury is still out. My opinion - and it is an opinion - is that teenagers should be discouraged from binge drinking. I am not of the opinion that banning alcohol altogether will achieve this. Studies show (link below) that teenagers are very capable of making sensible and rational decisions when these are put in a hypothetical scenario, rather than an instant response. I suggest, therefore, that education is the key here. Given accurate information and the time to process it, teenagers should be able to decide for themselves what their limits are, with respect to alcohol consumption. Parents can facilitate this educational process without trying to control their teens drinking habits directly.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2475802/

Clalpolly · 21/06/2017 13:33

My apologies for not trawling the internet and seeing it as flipping obvious that a distorting factor like alcohol is not a positive contribution to a pubescent body.
I don't say "ban" I say "exercise caution ". And have said it several times but not in learned articles you can link to. Just in MN posts on this thread that you can read.

RainbowJack · 21/06/2017 14:11

leonardthelemming I thought the park part of the comment was clearly facetious, didn't realise I needed to spell that out.

Your ideas are all pie in the sky thinking and saying well the research hasn't condemned it so clearly it's fine to give an adolescent drugs is a piss poor excuse. Use some common sense.

Connections are not just removed during adolescence, myelination continues to occur.

An adolescent doesn't have fully developed frontal lobes, and guess where alcohol just loves to hang out? Yep, the prefrontal cortex.

As for discounting articles. A good article will cite the scientific source they've used if it's not an opinion piece.

This isn't about banning alcohol. It's about adults who are suppose to love and protect children/teens and guide them through a difficult phase of life when their brain hasn't finished developing making their behaviour erratic, saying it's acceptable to give them unneeded drugs that directly affect their brain.

As a 'scientifically trained' person you can't connect the most basic dots? Sorry I don't buy that bullshit.

leonardthelemming · 21/06/2017 15:48

Your ideas are all pie in the sky thinking and saying well the research hasn't condemned it so clearly it's fine to give an adolescent drugs is a piss poor excuse. Use some common sense.

If you recall, the OP was about allowing a 15-year-old one glass of wine, with a meal. This hardly falls under the heading of "giving an adolescent drugs".

And the notion that the prefrontal lobe thing is especially important is what the more recent research casts doubt upon.

But you seem to think I advocate encouraging teenagers to drink alcohol. Nothing could be further from the truth - I actually want to discourage them from binge drinking. I just happen to think that teenagers have to make that decision for themselves, and for that they need accurate information. I strongly suspect (because I only have anecdotal evidence to support this statement) that moderate drinking occasionally, in the company of adults, is more likely to have that effect than an attempt to ban alcohol altogether.

I base this on my own experience as a teenager, that of my children, and discussions with many other teenagers too.

So perhaps we agree to an extent. Or we can agree to disagree.

supermoon100 · 21/06/2017 16:32

I think if you're hosting a large family meal, you're hardly going to have time to be checking first. I think yanbu, and she's almost old enough to get married! but it would be interesting to know what the parents would have said had you asked.

nigelsbigface · 21/06/2017 18:10

Oliversmumsarmy-as it goes the figures on young people drinking show it to be on the decline as opposed to previous decades.
I'm not sure where the 'years ago people only drank on a Saturday night, now we are all drinking ourselves into oblivion all the time' comes from?
I don't drink myself into oblivion and I don't know anyone in my circle that does. I also know lots of the dads of my friends used to go to the local for a few pints most nights where I was growing up in the 80's, then go 'out out' if you will, on one of both of the weekend nights. I don't know many dads (or mums) that do that now.
So I'm not sure the generalisations about our drinking culture getting worse actually stand up. It might be more visible-Im just not sure it's worse.
And I just don't think giving a kid whose almost 16 a glass of wine with a meal is the cause of any of it.
I work in mental health-a lot of addiction to drunk and drugs within the client group I support.I can tell you that it mostly goes on personality type-some people have a more addictive personality than others, peer pressure (far more than anything parents do unless they are abusive) and underlying mental health issues, as to who will become substance or alcohol dependent.Im yet to encounter an addict that has told me they started down the path because they were allowed one glass of wine with dinner by an aunt with whom they have a good relationship (presumably in the case of the op or the parents wouldn't let the kid round there and she wouldn't be on here worrying about it).

yikesanotherbooboo · 22/06/2017 10:15

I have never given my 15 year old alcohol... if he asked at a family occasion or if my sister gave him a little in the same situation I wouldn't object as we share similar values.
A lot of young people around here go to parties ( 16 th or post gcse etc) and there is often alcohol on offer. In my opinion parents are in loco parents on these occasions ... and should monitor it under their roof( can't do much about preloading in the park) a small beer or two would seem ok but getting bladdered in vodka not so much. Supervision levels seem to vary hugely

Oliversmumsarmy · 23/06/2017 01:51

a small beer or two would seem ok but getting bladdered in vodka not so much

Unfortunately from what I have seen there is no happy medium of a small beer or two
It is either tea total or completely bladdered

Jellycatspyjamas · 23/06/2017 04:08

^"If they are able to understand the risks and have capacity they might be able to consent or refuse treatment without parental consent. Just saying. A girl recently refused a lung transplant aged 15 against her parents wishes under this rule."^

To my knowledge, in England Gillick competence assesses a child's capacity to consent to medical treatment, not to refuse medical treatment - parents can overrule refusal of treatment and the court would need to make a decision to support the child's right to refuse. In Scotland children are able to consent and refuse medical treatment if they are deemed to understand the implications of their decision making and parents would need a court order to impose treatment against the child's wishes.

In herbs of alcohol, I have given my 15 yo nephew alcohol at a family party. My sister and I are very close, I know her attitude towards drinking and she trusts me with her son - it wouldn't have occurred to me to phone her and ask because I know what she would be ok with or not and my nephew was more than capable of accepting or refusing a drink when offered.

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