Is the school BU? Sorry for length but don't want to drip feed.

[WateryTart]

I think so but an outside perspective would be helpful. It's about my niece's child B.

18 months ago B was very unhappy in school. She had a friend D who was becoming increasingly demanding and making her very unhappy. D insisted on sitting beside her and being her partner whenever they had to pair up. If B wanted to play with other DCs D would complain to the teacher and the dinner ladies about being excluded and B was told to "be nice". But D didn't want to play with the others she wanted B to herself.

It came to a head when B asked another friend round for tea after school and D got very upset, screaming and crying in school. D's mum sent a very nasty text to B's mum about B being a bully etc. B's mum had had enough and went into school to try to sort it out. She made it clear that she was very unhappy that B was being forced into a friendship that wasn't working for her. She asked that B be moved and not compelled to sit beside D or always be her partner. Or that B be forced to play with her when she didn't want to.

This was met with resistance but B's mum insisted and B was allowed to move and play with others. She did sometimes play with D but D didn't like group games and B does, so not very often. D's mother still complains to the school but B is no longer forced into anything. Things have calmed down and B was happy in school.

The class is having a wonderful day out soon but D's mum has said that D "must" be paired with B or she's not going. B has already agreed to pair with another child and doesn't want to be D's partner because D will dictate the whole day. The teacher has put a lot of pressure on B and has said she "may have to insist" or D won't be able to go. They are 9 years old.

Niece is going in this morning and is very anxious. I've told her to stick to her guns. I was a teacher and I know these things can be difficult but this is very wrong, in my eyes. Is the school BU?

Im an autism mum and i dont think this approach by d's parents and the school is in either childs best interests , my child has a close friend but both myself and the school encourage him to play with all the children and that its ok to play with and socialise with any of the children in class and on the playground as a result hes really sociable and confident around others and although he does not find it easy he manages really well in groups a lot of the time , its not healthy for a child to be so reliant one one friend for all their social and emotional needs in school and certainly not nice for your nieces daughter who is being coerced into this role by the school i hope it gets sorted for both of the children

B is not D's keyworker and it's failing BOTH children that she's been placed into this role. School must find a way to support D through the trip.

That said, B's mum is probably really struggling and children with ASD aren't always great at seeing things from another point of view. B's behaviour may well have been reported back as bullying and it would be nice if your niece could put that part of the story to one side. Hopefully there's a way forward for the friendship, but that would take all the adults involved to work on it.

"The teacher has put a lot of pressure on B and has said she "may have to insist" "

That is absolutely disgraceful.

So your great niece has chosen a friend & was looking forward to it & the school are threatening her?

I wouldn't trust them at all to let her be with her chosen friend tbh.

Both girls are being let down by the adults at the school.

Your niece should not be made to spend a whole trip with someone she doesn't get on with.

The other little girl needs more support so she can make more friendships.

Absolutely NBU. The school definitely are BU.

My DC has a similar situation going on, but in our case both DCs are autistic. There's no one size fits all - my DC has massive issues caused by ASD, but thankfully has plenty of good friendships. But this child hates it and rages if my DC dares to even look at another child. Mine was perfectly happy to play with both or more kids, but this friend wouldn't allow it and would sulk or literally drag mine off. The parents blame my DC for not being at their DC's beck and call, their DC told constant lies about mine leaving them out, and long story short it has turned mine into an anxious wreck. Absolutely sick of it, we are just lucky that this friendship is not a school based one and we can avoid this family. My DC even felt guilty because "then they won't have any friends" but TBH they have bullied so many other kids who now shy away from them, and that is not my DC's responsibility. It just isn't. I feel sad about it because if the parents would just accept their DC's part in it and help them, they would have a much happier life :( but my DC shouldn't have to suffer for it and be bullied.

Sorry that's no help whatsoever and was a big rant I just wanted to empathise. For the school to condone this is just awful, they don't realise how much it can affect B :(

As the parent of B I would say that if the school 'insists' then I would be writing an official letter of complaint in.
I would also say that if the class teacher won't listen, I would go to the head. Much more to do with the whole situation than just this trip.

This happened to my dd for 2 years. In our case, D would cry dramatically and get dd into trouble every time dd told her she didn't want to do something or play with her. The teachers were shit, with the HT pairing them up every chance she got. They didn't understand that this "friendship" was toxic, and used D's bad home life as an excuse to mollycoddle her. When dd would suggest playing in 3's, the teachers would tell her off for not playing with D. When dd would tell D that she wanted to play with another friend, the teachers would tell her off for being mean. My dd lost so much confidence over it. Then they put them in the same class for a third year and I had to blatantly tell them that you can't force a friendship when D is crying at school getting attention, my dd is at home in tears worried about going to school incase she gets in trouble again and blamed for being cruel or a bully.

They must have had strong words or done something because the third year, D completely stopped following dd everywhere and has moved on to another poor victim now, however, she still occassionally says horrible and spiteful things to dd out of the blue, but dd is mature enough to ignore it.

Good luck to your niece, I hope this is sorted for you.

No this is all wrong. Blackmailling a child to be the support system for another is never right, I know, they school tried it with ds and it went violently wrong when the other child attacked my ds. Was bloody furious as I had no idea about until it went wrong.

Do not let them bully this child into being Ds partner, its not her responsibility to ensure D goes. Its her mums responsibility to teach her child not to rely on one person to make her happy. Maybe if mum had butt out in the begining and encouraged her daughter to make other friends this wouldnt be happening now. Its schools job to support D and her mum in finding solutions to her problems, not another childs.

I think it's not just school, but Mum/parents are taking wrong path.
Once my ds was playing with ASD child, and the child started to squash a worm little by little and having fun watching it wriggle. My ds became hysterical, and I asked her dc to stop, but Mum told me not to tell her no, and she can carry on, since it upsets her to be told do/not to do things.
I knew she was only protecting her dc, but I didn't think letting her do whatever dc wants to do was particularly helping her dc to be socially accepted.

DS2 was put in B's position. It didn't end well although fortunately for us they left the school a year early. DS used to come home saying he hated school and wanted to leave because he was always paired up with this boy.

I do think the children who complain less are paired with the D's of the world more often.

DS2 is now in secondary school and has been able to choose his own friends, thankfully.

" but D's mum has said that D "must" be paired with B or she's not going."

Why would the school give that any consideration at all?

It's entirely up to the mother to send her or not-but she an't send her with conditions!

I didn't think letting her do whatever dc wants to do was particularly helping her dc to be socially accepted.

In general terms you're right, but, only she will know what his behaviour is likely to be like if he is prevented from doing something he's focussed on. In the case of one of my kids, this would be like unleashing the ninth level of hell.

I hate the way schools blame the B's of the class when things like this happen. No B is not a bully or mean or anything they just want to play with everyone nicely. School shouldn't be forcing her to strictly play or team up with anyone. The people in the wrong here are school/parents/D. They are the ones being unkind and bullying a child.

Honestly if this was happening about my child's school trip I would keep them home for the day that would soon mess up any plans they had for her being D's buddy that day.

All adults need to sit and have a meeting about how to move forward whilst protecting the needs of both girls

I don't agree with this. It sounds a bit like all adults getting together to find a solution for D. B and her mum are not part of the solution with regards D learning to socialise with other children. The school and D mum need to work together to help D. The school needs to respect B and her mums wishes. I would say tingly insist my child's needs be respected if I was B mum.

It's a really sad situation but forcing B to spend anytime with D when this makes her unhappy is just wrong.

Shells whilst the 9 stages of hell tantrum is horrible sometimes children have to learn - at what point would you step in - torturing a worm is OK - what about a frog, a puppy - where are you going to draw the line? Irvine's son was very upset by the other child's behaviour - at what point is it OK to ignore this?

I agree with pps that the school is BVU. I saw this happen twice with one of DD2s friends - a pleasant quiet shy girl with whom autistic girls were happy. At primary school she ended up being taken over by another girl to the extent that she was expected to sit and watch the other girl play with lego rather than go and play a group game. Moving away at secondary she ended up befriended by a second autistic girl and that didn't go well either.

I think that the school needs to sort child D out - perhaps some break times an older child might read with her or she could be asked to listen to a younger child read? At the same time your family and the school need to do some work with child B to help her develop the confidence to say a firm no from time to time and to assert her choices - otherwise she may find the pattern repeats itself and in 20 years time she finds herself posting on mumsnet because she is unable to assert herself against a batshit MIL.

An update.

Niece usually takes her youngest to nursery and then leaves B to make the rest of the way to school on her own. Except this morning , after settling youngest, she walked on to school.

She found D's mum pressuring B (who was in tears) in a very aggressive way, saying she had to partner D. She grabbed B's hand, told D's mum to shut up and stormed up the school drive, followed by D's mum shouting after them. The head spotted this and came out. She guided B and her mum into her office and asked another teacher to take care of D's mum.

B was in floods of tears by then, saying she wasn't a bully. My niece was very angry but tried to stay calm. She made it very clear that from now on B and D must be kept apart. She wasn't to be her partner for anything and neither should she be forced to play with D at all. She also told the head that she needed to speak to D's mum about bullying B at the school gate. The head said to leave it with her but niece said she needed reassurances.

They are having another meeting tomorrow.

I think niece handled it brilliantly. She was in floods of tears on the phone to me but managed to keep it together at school.

OP - sorry it had to come to such a head, but it is really good that it did, and before this school trip as well.

hopefully it will now get sorted as Ds mum as shown how much she is pressuring B.

get your neice to look at this thread, so that she can see how much support she has, and that she is totally not being unreasonable.

It is so easy to doubt ourselves and think we are being PFB, over reacting etc, when we really are not, we really do have the right to stand up and take a stand

D's mum sounds like right piece of work, I get she wants her child to be happy but pressuring another child like that is disgusting.

I hope your niece gets the correct outcome after today.

I'm so proud of her. She isn't the most confident young woman but this has brought out the very best in her.

Glad your niece spoke to HT.

D mums sounds awful. Who does that to another child.

I had a similar (but less extreme - or maybe I just wasn't as kind as B so I made it clear I wanted to hang out with others) in early secondary school.

Luckily we got put into sets for more and more subjects which separated me from her.

Had the school been a bit less keen to use me as an unpaid TA then I may have been willing to meet up with her at break times / sit with her in form room sometimes.

As it was I learnt "If you are kind to X once (which I was) then you will be forced to be with her constantly to the detriment of your own school work and friendship groups from then onwards." So I used that learning and was never kind to her ever again!

D's mum sounds awful-and it sounds as if the school want to let her have her way so that they don't have to deal with her.

Tell your neice to bear in mind that they have already put pressure on her daughter re the school trip.

They have not had her back at all by the sounds of things.

So how is she supposed to trust them now?

The school is being lazy, unprofessional, unreasonable, are in fact bullying B by insisting s/he be paired with D. D's mum is a classic bully.

I hope after this morning's episode the school steps up and finally does the right thing, but I wouldn't be holding my breath. Unless they ban D's mum from the school after her blatant bullying of B this morning, they are failing in their duty of care towards B.

Good on your niece, though, for the way she handled it.

How awful. This needs to be the end of B being pressured to partner with D all the time. D is not B's responsibility. Ridiculous.