Is the school BU? Sorry for length but don't want to drip feed.

[WateryTart]

I think so but an outside perspective would be helpful. It's about my niece's child B.

18 months ago B was very unhappy in school. She had a friend D who was becoming increasingly demanding and making her very unhappy. D insisted on sitting beside her and being her partner whenever they had to pair up. If B wanted to play with other DCs D would complain to the teacher and the dinner ladies about being excluded and B was told to "be nice". But D didn't want to play with the others she wanted B to herself.

It came to a head when B asked another friend round for tea after school and D got very upset, screaming and crying in school. D's mum sent a very nasty text to B's mum about B being a bully etc. B's mum had had enough and went into school to try to sort it out. She made it clear that she was very unhappy that B was being forced into a friendship that wasn't working for her. She asked that B be moved and not compelled to sit beside D or always be her partner. Or that B be forced to play with her when she didn't want to.

This was met with resistance but B's mum insisted and B was allowed to move and play with others. She did sometimes play with D but D didn't like group games and B does, so not very often. D's mother still complains to the school but B is no longer forced into anything. Things have calmed down and B was happy in school.

The class is having a wonderful day out soon but D's mum has said that D "must" be paired with B or she's not going. B has already agreed to pair with another child and doesn't want to be D's partner because D will dictate the whole day. The teacher has put a lot of pressure on B and has said she "may have to insist" or D won't be able to go. They are 9 years old.

Niece is going in this morning and is very anxious. I've told her to stick to her guns. I was a teacher and I know these things can be difficult but this is very wrong, in my eyes. Is the school BU?

I had a friend exactly like this in primary school. She was my best friend but would guilt me if I wanted to play with other kids in group games. It is so draining, especially on children.

Your niece has done the right thing and needs to stick to her guns.

There's a variant of autism called PDA, which can mean that, underpinned by anxiety, a child with it can sometimes latch on or fixate on another person, and I wonder if that's what happens here, and it may well be that her mum can't get her to do ANYTHING without B being "used" as the incentive.
Perhaps the mum and/school could speak to the local autism support team, for some better ways to handle this.

I think it's outrageous that the school is putting B in this position. It's akin to bullying her. Insist?! She's 9! No way would I accept my daughter being put in that position, it's not her responsibility.

www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/pda.aspx

Totally right to stick to her guns. I've had a similar situation and had to be very firm before they got it.
It's just lazy on the school's part, really.
Taking the line of least resistance irregardless of what's actually fair to everyone.

The school is being extremely unreasonable. They need to ask D's mother to support her, or to provide an adult to do so themselves. If they don't have funding for that, tough, they should have applied for it - it is not B's duty to spoil her day to save them money. Your niece needs to speak to the teacher about it and, if she is still insistent, she needs to go up the line to the head and, if necessary, the governors.

I must say, I'd be very tempted to tell the school that if they insist then my child wouldn't be going on the trip at all, so they are going to have to make arrangements for D anyway. I would arrange to take my child and her friend another day.

YANBU. It's very unfair to expect a 9 year to manage the needs D has. If B needs that space then she should not be forced to partner with D. The schools is responsible in helping D deal with this. As much as I feel sorry for D and her mum. I agree your niece should stick to her guns.

Thanks for the support. Niece will be going in this morning hoping it can be sorted amicably but prepared to insist.

Most coaches for school trips have seat belts so you can't squeeze three into a seat.

I also don't think D would be happy with it from the description; she wants B to herself as shown by the melt down when B was going to someone else's house.

The school is BU but it's a difficult and sad situation for them.

I had a similar case with a child in my tutor group who finds appropriate social interaction so difficult. One other child was nice to them and 'my' child became very dependent on them, trying to pull them away from others to spend time alone together because they couldn't copy with the group. After a couple of weeks an email arrived from the other child's parents asking that their child never be paired or grouped with 'my' child. Understandable of course, but it broke my heart and I'm only the tutor not the parent!!

Is there any particular reason why the kids need to be exclusively paired up during this trip? Surely encouraging small groups or rotating partnerships for activities throughout the day would be better options to deal with this.

Really hope things get sorted for both B and D.

All adults need to sit and have a meeting about how to move forward whilst protecting the needs of both girls

No they don't. If B doesn't want to be (exclusively) friends with D, that's an end of it.

We don't force adults to spend time with people they don't want to spend time with - except at work - and that's still a choice, as you could find another job.

It is super super unreasonable for the school to insist that someone has to be paired with a particular child to go on a trip.

Whether D has special needs is irrelevant, those are not B's problem.

". If they don't have funding for that, tough, they should have applied for it"

Ceto- sorry off topic but I'm guessing you don't have a child with Sen otherwise you'd realise what a ridiculous statement this is. Try reading the Sen pages and see how difficult it is to get funding. My son has autism and has been struggling at school for 2 years socially and emotionally to the extent where he's been excluded twice but has been turned down even for assessment for funding as he is fine academically. We're now having to go to tribuna to fight decision but that's more months of delay.. Until you enter this world u really don't have a clue. (This doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the way school are handling things but they can't just get funding)

Gggrrrr....this gives me the rage! I had this with my DD and she was labelled a bully because at aged 8 the only way she could deal with being constantly pestered and pressured to be in an exclusive friendship with someone like D was to get mean and say unkind things. She got no support from school to deal with it either, and used to come home in tears often.

I think it's the school and parents responsibility to do some hard work with D to help her understand friendships and groups and help her gain the skills and emotional intelligence to cope with this - it's an important life skill. And I speak as the parent of an Aspie as well (not DD) so I know how hard groups are for them.

user, your guess couldn't be more wrong, and you really could not be more absurd in assuming that I don't have a clue. Yes, I know how difficult it is to get funding; I also know the mechanisms are there to challenge the refusal of EHCPs, and indeed that the tribunal appeal process for appealing against the refusal of assessment has now become easier to use. Schools do not do enough to educate themselves or parents about how to use those mechanisms, nor do they do enough to support parents in that regard.

tbh there seems to be it's a conflict between rights and compassion. Of course your niece shouldn't be forced to play with someone else or made responsible for them attending the trip but, overall, is it ok that all the children opt out of playing with the child who has autism?

Gwen, I don't think OP or anyone else is saying that that is OK; simply that the onus should not all fall onto one child. Certainly if the school had put more effort into helping this child to socialise with other children the likelihood is that this problem would not arise.

Good luck to your niece. It's really unbelievable that they'd put so much pressure on a 9 year old.

But it's not about all the children though because D has become fixated on one child and that certainly isn't a healthy fixation for B and really it probably isn't for D either.

Ds is autistic and struggles socially but I have had to ask school to encourage ds away from his one "friend" because actually the way it is heading isn't good for DS or realistically for the "friend" either.

Friendship issues and autism are always going to be a complicated issue!

I have been in exactly the same situation, except that my B has some spectrum tendencies. As long as my B was comfortable with the relationship, I did not interfere, even when they were used as D's calm-down activity (mostly playing card games in a quiet space outside the classroom), as B enjoyed it, felt valued, and was easily keeping up in class.

When, however, the friendship became too controlling, and restricting B's already limited social circle, I stepped in. As it was mid-year, the school were reluctant to move either out of their class into the other form, so they introduced my B into social activities areas where D would not go, such as sports, choir, tech clubs etc, and presented these to D as 'teacher said B must go here'.

I insisted that for Y5 they be separated into different classes. This has helped a lot, as last year's clubs widened my B's social circle and they slotted right into the new class.

My B and D have some classes and some playtimes together. D has learned not to depend exclusively on B. Their friendship continues, though not as intensely as before. My B is no longer distraught when D flares up at them, as B now has other friends to play with, and understands that D will settle down again when they are ready, and that the flare-up is not B's responsibility.

The main difference for us is that the school supported us when they accepted that using my B as a support structure for D was causing B distress.

I had no contact with D's mum over this, not even via the school, other than the usual polite pleasantries in the playground.

I had this with my ds. I was good friends with Mum who had child with ASD.I was happy to listen her and help her if I could. I always arranged playdate with her and let my ds play with her dc.
And I always encouraged my ds to help the child at school if he can.
But one day, she told me she went into school to ask her dc to be always be paired up with my ds. I thought that was too much. He is happy to plays with the child as a group, happy to be paired up occasionally, but not as a default option. School didn't comply with her request.

School need to stop relying on B as the social prop to D. For D it doesn't actually help her with socialising really as friendships are not sustained by having a melt down. B is being given the message that her choice/gut instincts over friendships is not equally as valid. Both need to be reassured that friendships are fluid.

If school is going to insist they should not pair up but make groups of 4/6.

My DD has autism and also struggles with friendships BUT I have explained to her repeatedly that you can have lots of friends and just because you have different friends it doesn't mean they like you any less.

She is accepting of this and has different little friendship groups for different activities and things she likes doing. She doesn't like group games and is happy to sit on her own watching or reading or just doing nothing.

The mum of child D is not doing her any favours. She needs to be explaining social groups / friendships / social skills to her DD and encouraging her to build lots of friendships rather than relying on just one with B.

We have a similar situation but reversed; DS1 has ASD and is incredibly social, has lots of different friends and is oddly popular. His best friend is lovely but very intense and unless DS1 agrees to partner him in things, will kick off within school and cause mayhem. Because DS1 is so easy-going school have used him on occasion to placate his best friend at the expense of DS1's preferences.

It's an awkward situation made even more tricky when SEN is involved but having SEN doesn't give anyone the right to 'own' another person. It's a hard lesson to learn, but better to learn it as youngsters than to become a controlling adult who can't bend occasionally.

BTW I'm pretty sure I've heard schools must fund the first 20h of support themselves, and can only apply for extra funding if a child needs constant 1-to-1 support.

It's not surprising that they will take advantage of a child accepting that role!