Is the school BU? Sorry for length but don't want to drip feed.

[WateryTart]

I think so but an outside perspective would be helpful. It's about my niece's child B.

18 months ago B was very unhappy in school. She had a friend D who was becoming increasingly demanding and making her very unhappy. D insisted on sitting beside her and being her partner whenever they had to pair up. If B wanted to play with other DCs D would complain to the teacher and the dinner ladies about being excluded and B was told to "be nice". But D didn't want to play with the others she wanted B to herself.

It came to a head when B asked another friend round for tea after school and D got very upset, screaming and crying in school. D's mum sent a very nasty text to B's mum about B being a bully etc. B's mum had had enough and went into school to try to sort it out. She made it clear that she was very unhappy that B was being forced into a friendship that wasn't working for her. She asked that B be moved and not compelled to sit beside D or always be her partner. Or that B be forced to play with her when she didn't want to.

This was met with resistance but B's mum insisted and B was allowed to move and play with others. She did sometimes play with D but D didn't like group games and B does, so not very often. D's mother still complains to the school but B is no longer forced into anything. Things have calmed down and B was happy in school.

The class is having a wonderful day out soon but D's mum has said that D "must" be paired with B or she's not going. B has already agreed to pair with another child and doesn't want to be D's partner because D will dictate the whole day. The teacher has put a lot of pressure on B and has said she "may have to insist" or D won't be able to go. They are 9 years old.

Niece is going in this morning and is very anxious. I've told her to stick to her guns. I was a teacher and I know these things can be difficult but this is very wrong, in my eyes. Is the school BU?

[user789653241]

I think it's a very sad situation. OP's niece has done brilliantly.
Also I am sure D's mum is only trying her best to make D happy, and forgetting to think about others, losing perspective.
I really hope B's situation is sorted out soon. And also D(and her Mum) get adequate help as well.

[susyot]

We had a similar situation develop a few years ago with a little boy in my daughter's class who would focus on one child and become very upset if that child didn't want to play/partner up. This is how the school dealt with it.

The school already had a buddy system with y5/y6 pupils would come over to play with their younger buddies. This was extended so that the little boy had a rota of 2 buddies who were available each break to play with.

The "favoured" child was asked if they still wanted to play to which the answer was yes but not all the time. They were told great play with him but if you want to play with others that is fine to and we MDAs/teachers would make sure the little boy was ok.

The class partners were regularly mixed about so nobody had the same partner all the time.

There were tears to begin with but now I have noticed that his peer group will often peel off one or two spontaneously to go and play with him so he is not alone.

The favoured child is still a focus but they are quite happy because there is no pressure.

The buddy system seems to have tailed off but the older kids still keep an eye out and will often play with him. (Last year I walked round a corner to find a whole class of yr6 boys sat in a circle playing patty cake with him)

Of course the big difference was that the parent was completely on board with this and worked very hard with the staff to encourage the little boy.

I hope the school take steps to resolve this instead of putting so much pressure on a young child.

[terrylene]

Yes, the school IBU. There are other ways - circle of friends is one that I have read about and DC high school used for children who were having trouble settling. DN has done her bit, the other children need to do their's too. Sometimes it seems that it is convenient for all the adults and the other children involved to let one child take the strain so it lets them off the hook. If that child is reasonably adept at dealing with it, so much the better! Unfortunately this leads to a position where this becomes expected and everyone else can go off and relax and enjoy themselves and the DC becomes isolated themselves - it continues in out of school activities too. If the chosen DC has their own social difficulties, they do not get the chance to branch out and practice their own social skills.

We had similar all through school with a child who was not diagnosed with anything (parents' choice) and a mother who was determined to make sure she did not miss out. Unfortunately my girls were considered 'nice'.

In 6th form, I had DD phoning me on a trip away for a bit of adult conversation that wasn't about cats . She is quite an independent person and usually on phones when it is necessary. I had to go up to school and talk with the teachers about being aware there were subtle problems making sure she got to work with a variety of people. The teacher was very good and took it on board.

Unfortunately, I think that if the school handle the issue in the way they have, children who have been in this position will see someone who they think is asd and run a mile, which is not good for anyone.

[Fabellini]

Oh dear. I can see both sides here as ds1 has asd, so I can understand some of the difficulties being faced by Ds mum, but ds2 was put in a very similar position with a child in his class at school.
While they were in primary the boys were good friends, and ds2 loved helping his friend, but I did feel that he was used a little by teachers to support the other child.
It actually continued through to secondary school where the other child was in SEN dept. Ds2 would come home with letter from head of SEN asking if he would go on trip with this child as otherwise child would not go - after consulting with ds2 I agreed a couple of times, but when it started to get a bit more frequent and ds2 was missing classes to go on SEN dept outings, we (ds2 and I) had to say "enough already".
Boy and his mum weren't very happy, but I couldnt have ds2s education being disrupted any further, and ds2 was becoming increasingly reluctant to go.

[MissHavishamsleftdaffodil]

D's mother's actions in approaching B utterly indefensible. Poor little B! It does occur reading your update that D's mother may also be on the spectrum and it may be her own rigidity/anxiety is coming from there, but that is the school's issue to help D and D's mother with.

The first thing I thought reading your OP was bloody hell, if a child with ASD who has difficulty forming friendships and relationships has a good, mutully fulfilling friendship with another child, especially if it's their only such relationship in school, as a teacher you protect that friendship as actively as you can by not letting one child overwhelm or 'burn out' the other. D hasn't had that support or help to understand the wider picture of friendships and they haven't protected B, so B is now understandably done with that friendship. She doesn't want to be around D any more.

School need to look a whole lot deeper into this than just trying to guilt and force B into being used against her will for D's benefit, including 'insisting' about the trip all of which is also indefensible. Your niece handled it well, I'd have been strongly tempted to take B home again, and to be considering moving her to another school. Awful way to treat a nine year old child!

[MissHavishamsleftdaffodil]

• that should say they haven't protected B or D either. Poor kid has lost her friendship through lack of support to keep it appropriate.

[Beeziekn33ze]

On a trip a child likely to have, or make, difficulties, is, in my experience, expected to stay with a specific adult that knows them. Could be a teacher, TA or parent helper but normally unlikely to be their own parent.
It is not the teacher's place to 'insist' which child B partners.

[TurncoatEwok]

It also doesn't teach B good lessons about relationships being a two way consensual thing.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. In an adult relationship, if D was forcing B away from friends in order to pacify them, then D would be seen as abusive and controlling. It might just be childhood 'school days' type stuff now but these things set up subconscious rules for the future IME and the stakes are much higher.

It scares me that my DC might one day be in a relationship with someone who is like this friend, and if they remembered their childhood being spent appeasing someone who controlled and bullied them and got angry and spiteful whenever they spent time with someone else, they will just think they have to do that in a partnership too - stay with them, placate them. I probably sound dramatic but the effect this has all had on my DC has been absolutely huge. But hopefully my DC will remember that we (and other friends' parents who understand the situation) have stood up for them and showed them it's not ok to be treated like that.

It's so sad the teachers in this situation aren't on B's side but hopefully the more OP's niece keeps on at the school it will at least show B that the situation is not a healthy one.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

"Most coaches for school trips have seat belts so you can't squeeze three into a seat."

Gosh, sorry, not what I meant at all, although I can see how you would have thought that. I meant that they could be sat either across the aisle in a 3, or on the back seat (If coaches still have those), which used to be 5 seats across, or that they could be sat in a block of 4 (2 in front, 2 behind)

[grannytomine]

My son was once B to a little girl who was D. I think the school did use him but he was happy with the situation so I never interfered. I think the difference for my son was probably that he is quite assertive and was actually really good at dealing with D's tantrums to the extent that he would be asked to take her out of the classroom and calm her down. He was 8. Perhaps it was the sign that he would end up a Mental Health Professional but we didn't realise that at the time.

When I think about it now it seems wrong to put that on an 8 year old but at the time it just seemed quite normal for him. Of course in this case it is even more wrong as B isn't happy with it, I wouldn't have let it continue if my B had been unhappy.

[Ceto]

Your niece should mention safeguarding at the meeting tomorrow, in the context of the school's duty to keep B safe from bullying by other parents.

[emmyrose2000]

The school is letting both children down by expecting a NINE year old to virtually act as aide to the second child.

It is not B's job to do the work of an adult aide in ensuring that D can get through the day. They need to sort out funding and support for D if necessary/possible and leave B to spend her time being an ordinary nine year old.

The use of emotional blackmail against a nine year old is beyond disgusting. If D can't/won't attend the trip without demanding that B be her buddy for the day, then I guess D's made her choice to miss the trip.

All the staff involved and D's mum should be ashamed of themselves. Hopefully today's events will bring things to a head.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Posted that before I read the rest of the thread and the update.

Like MissHAvisham, it crossed my mind that D's mum might also be on the spectrum. I don't think she's a classic bully, I suspect that she may have had troubles like this herself at school and is trying to avoid her own DD (D) suffering the same. She certainly went about it completely the wrong way, and should NEVER have approached B in that way - which is what set the bells tinkling for me. But who knows.

Glad your niece has dealt with it, hope the school follow through and find a far better way to support D than they've managed so far!

[TurncoatEwok]

Bloody hell I just read the update! Well, it's all come to a head now and that's entirely D's mum's fault.

I would be entirely unsurprised if the mum in my own situation ended up acting like that if the opportunity arose. The bitchiness, the manipulation, the blaming and total unwillingness to see how her own child's behaviour has led to mine backing away in fear!

Well done to your niece. She is the advocate needed by all the Bs of this world :)

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Wow - I read through this thread, hoping for an update that said that the OP's niece had been into school, had a constructive talk with the teacher, and all was well. I certainly didn't expect an update saying that D's mum had harassed and bullied a 9-year-old to tears!

Whilst I appreciate that D's mum is trying to support and look after her child, she is doing her no favours at all. As others have said on here, it is not healthy for D to rely solely on one person for friendship - what if B moves away, or is ill? What if, later on in school life, even if they end up at the same senior school, but don't end up in the same sets?

D needs to be helped to learn that people can have more than one friend, that it is possible to play in a group of more than two, that you can't rigidly control your friends, or insist that they play with you. She needs to be helped and supported in learning how to make and keep friends - and neither the school nor her mum seem to be stepping up to this responsibility.

@WateryTart - I am so sorry that your niece and B had such an unpleasant experience this morning - but huge kudos to your niece for handling it so well. I hope that the school is forced to acknowledge how wrong the teacher was to try to blackmail B into being D's partner for the trip - both your niece and B deserve a full apology for that alone.

I hope that the next meeting goes well too.

[UnicornSparkles1]

What an appalling way for an adult to behave. She's 9 for goodness sake! I hope D's mother is told that this is completely unacceptable behaviour and must never happen again under any circumstance. Poor B.

I'm so glad that your niece witnessed it happen and could take immediate action.

[RiversrunWoodville]

Shocking way Ds mum behaved, feel very sorry for B that must have been so intimidating. I really hope that the school is on board with your niece now she handled that really well

[DartmoorDoughnut]

Poor B hope the school take action now at least

[ExplodedCloud]

Hope this gets sorted. I've been in D's mum's position but took a very different attitude and it was handled better by everybody. I've worked with school to find routes to manage this and whilst dd is a little fed up she can't monopolize B, she has alternative in place. And B is still her friend. And B's mum and I are still on speaking terms! :)

[Spongesecret008]

The school is BU. Like other posters I have been in this exact same situation.

My ds got moved to another class and everything is ok now. Me and the other parents don't speak any more but it is a small price to pay for helping my ds.

[Shellsandstones1]

Londonmummy1966

Children with autism aren't having tantrums, they are meltdowns. Entirely and totally different. Only one is a choice.

As for the rest of your post, replace "autistic" with black, and see how it reads.

[WannaBe]

The mother is as much if not more out of order than the school. And we have no idea that she's on the spectrum - and we can't assume that. If she has SN of her own then perhaps these should be revealed in order that her behaviour be justified but otherwise there is no excuse for bullying a nine year old child and she should be banned from the playground in future.

It sounds as if the school are agreeing to what she wants for a quiet life. Well it seems they're not going to get that now so time to step up and take responsibility.


And autism or not, as long as there is no bullying involved no child should ever be forced to be friends with another child ever. If B never wants to play with this child ever again then that is her prerogative.

[WateryTart]

Short update.

Niece has been getting a few texts this afternoon from D's mum. She opened the first one and it was accusing her of being a bad friend and B of being a bully. She replied along the lines of leaving the school to sort it out but she considered their friendship was over. She collected B and D's mum was there but she ignored her. B had a good day and was sat well away from D and nothing was said about the trip.

When she got home another text came which she didn't read beyond the first aggressive sentence, she replied that she was going to block the number and to leave her alone.