To have not removed DS from tea room?

[OtAndBothered]

Went for day out to national trust abbey today with DH, DS1 (4) and DS2 (2). It's obviously very hot and DS2 was becoming cranky so we came out of the abbey and headed for a little tea room in the village. Sat down with cakes and drinks and DS became more agitated with the heat and started crying. I tried to pacify him but he became more and more upset so DH and I took it in turns to comfort him whilst also trying to each our lunch. It didn't help that the tea room was an old stone building so the cries were magnified and echoing.

Anyway an old couple stood up and started to leave having evidently not touched their lunch. The waiter said to them "are you leaving already? Is there a problem with the food?" So the old woman said "no but we came in here to relax and it's hardly a relaxing atmosphere unfortunately". The waiter replied "I'm so sorry about the noise" and shot us the most evil glare.

DH became agitated and embarrassed saying we should just leave but the alternative was to take DS outside where it was even hotter where he would have cried and screamed even more! I told DH we should just stay and finish our lunch and try and get DS to drink. Anyway eventually he started drifting off to sleep but then a loud noise woke him up with a start and he began screaming. At this point a younger woman slammed her cup down and snapped "for gods sake!". Her husband looked embarrassed and told her to "just leave it" to which she replied "I can't, the racket is giving me a headache! So much for peace and quiet!"

She shot me a look so I said "I'm sorry, he's obviously hot and bothered, it's not exactly relaxing for us either but it's even hotter outside so I'm not sure what you expect me to do?". She seemed to soften up and replied "no, I'm sorry, it's just that people come in here to relax and the noise is deafening, everyone is leaving for that's reason! Can't you take him for a walk or something?" .

Anyway I said "no sorry, as I said it's hotter outside and my other child is still finishing his lunch". With that DH overheard the waiter apologising to customers coming in about the noise. Afterwards DH said I was selfish and we should have just left but I'm not sure what anyone expected me to do! It was 32 degrees outside, he was crying because he was hot! Taking him back outside would have made him much worse and there were people "relaxing" out there too so surely we'd have ended up in more bother?!

@boopsy

If the sn person was making a lot of noise because they were hot, upset and didn't want to be in the café (as per the OP) then I would expect their carer to take them outside rather than carry on eating their cake. It's abusive otherwise imo.

If they were making a lot of noise because they were happy or simply because that's how they communicate then no, I wouldn't expect them to leave.

A

I would take ds out if I thought it would be in his best interests to take him out.
I wouldn't always take him for being upset because he is often upset in an unfamiliar place (and then calms down) and because sometimes the upset has nothing to do with where he is.

I think it depends. I would have taken ds out if he was having a meltdown when he was younger because it would be easier to calm him down somewhere quiet where people weren't inadvertently making him worse by trying to help. He also has the level of understanding that he has learned now where it is and isn't acceptable to make excessive noise. Also his meltdowns were relatively infrequent it was no hardship to us to occasionally leave places if we were disturbing others.
On the other hand if someone has a disability where there is a lot of shouting out/noise involved and that isn't going to change it would be unfair for them to basically have to leave everywhere they try to go.
I was having a meal out with my family recently and there was a family with a disabled child at the table next to us and the child was pretty much constantly shouting out. My kids asked me why and I discretely explained that I wasn't sure but it was probably due to their brain working a bit differently. It wasn't mentioned again and we all enjoyed our meal/managed to chat above the noise etc. Some people at the other tables were tutting/glaring and one of them complained to the waiter about the noise. I heard one man tell his wife that he couldn't believe how selfish the family were being spoiling everyone's meal. But didn't have the self awareness to realise how selfish HE was being to be basically suggesting that that family NEVER went out for meals. Whereas I'm sure he will have many experiences of a quiet meal out in his life. I wish I could say I said that to him but I didn't. I just tried to look sympathetically over at the mum who looked very flustered.

'SN person" isnt a great descriptor

Corbyns yes people can be absolute dickheads unfortunately.

@Finally - you're quite right and I apologise. I took the phrase directly from the previous comment and should have rephrased it as 'the person with sn'

Just posting for the hell of it, really, seeing as how this thread has gone rather batshit over the last several pages, and the OP has long since accepted, slightly grudgingly, that she was indeed U and will do things differently next time.

I have some sympathy with her unwillingness to take her toddler back out into the heat, but it was seriously unreasonable to allow his screams to echo around inside as opposed to outside, where the echo factor would surely have been seriously reduced.
IF it had been one of mine, I'd have probably asked the waiter for a pint of water, taken him outside and tipped it over his head to cool him down. Slowly, of course. Both my boys suffer from heatstroke, though, so I wouldn't have had them out in those temps if I could have avoided it - and I live in Australia. Where it gets much fucking hotter than that.

Who's in for the June 2018 tea room anniversary re-enactment and meetup? Panel discussion directly after the re-enactment with special YANBU and YABU guests.

Meeeee!

How silly.

Op isn't the first not to leave a place when child is screaming and won't be the last

Oh dear.

THINK OF OTHER PEOPLE.

Grrrrrr

What were you thinking taking a toddler to a tea room on the hottest day in 200 years, OP?

Very true, she's definitely not the first to do that, that's the reason why this thread has gone on this long! So many people have had bad experiences of noisy children in cafes with the parents not caring enough to remove them.

Rasberry dear, I think you'll find that this thread is an ex thread, a dead thread, a positive Dodo of a thread.

Mkay?

HTH

*Raspberry 🙄

Oh, right.

Nothing to see here, move along folks.

Other patrons know the difference between people with special needs and attention-seeking or very grouchy children who can put out a wall of noise. The latter should be removed pronto.

Sadly in my experience they dont know the difference as much as you would think.

Good points but you will notice that this thread is finished now.

Thank you for your contributions.

You wanna make something of it? You wanna?

Have the moderators called a halt? Or is that it invisible amongst all the posts?

Why, for the love of all that is sacred, do you people keep this thread going?

Who's in for the June 2018 tea room anniversary re-enactment and meetup?

Count me in.

No they haven't called a halt yet, it's just that the op left the thread days ago, never to return. She couldn't cope with the understandable outrage at her unreasonableness, which she did at least acknowledge in the end.

I wonder if this is the longest thread ever??

Nina

Yes. The thread police moderators have spoken.

So shush.

I can see how this might have happened. OP probably had a lovely family day out planned and didn't anticipate quite how hot it would get or how her DS would be feeling that day. She probably also hoped her DS would calm down sooner than 20 minutes. Yes, I WOULD have taken my DD out but probably not straight away if it was cool in the cafe and I thought I could settle her. Not sure OP should be 'ashamed of herself' fgs!