Wibu about DD's skirt?

[KubaLeebre]

DD is 4 and in a small private nursery. Today at drop off, she was showing her key worker her new cotton dress. The key worker said "DD, the first thing we are going to do is put some shorts on you, you like to roll around don't you, and you don't want the boys seeing your knickers!".

I said, "I'm sorry, but I feel that she doesn't need shorts. She's 4, and wearing knickers, so her bits are covered as far as I'm concerned".

Key worker just said "oh, right".

WIBU? I'm annoyed that the worker has been doing this. I don't want my 4 year old DD thinking that she has to "cover up" so that the boys don't see her knickers.

Do you do lots of cartwheels Pixie? What do you imagine is likely to happen that will make you immodest?

Ffs whatever happened to childhood innocence?! If you ask me the worker is probably projecting her inner shame onto DD!

VickyR- I promise I am not being dismissive but could you give a few minutes thought to the following- could your sense of etiquette and the importance you attach to your upbringing be the similar sort of conditioning that 100 years ago said it was unladylike to perspire? Or that says it's unladylike for women to have hairy arm pits? Or that, in some countries, it's unladylike to drive?

We were all brought up with different cultural and moral codes- it's healthy to explore and question them.

These little girls who need to wear shorts over their knickers... what on earth are they wearing...thongs???

I had this exact same thing happen at my nursery. Is it a new safeguarding thing? We were emailed to say that girls wearing dresses should wear shorts too so that the male members of staff couldn't see their private parts!! I was disgusted at the wording they used.

Pikachuwithyourmouthclosed I totally agree with you - whilst the way the nursery worker said this was very clumsy, in terms of for a child at nursery she is just trying to ensure she can be free to be a little kid and run around with the others comfortably. Original post said something about the nice dress - at nursery " nice dresses" are wildly impractical- any nursery worth its salt in this weather will have the kids playing outside in sand/ grass/ soil/ clambering and painting and perhaps playing with foam - as little ones mostly do not have a great sense of body awareness ( think how many times fingers go in nostrils or rub their eyes) she is probably thinking of the child - even in infants it is just way better for the kids to have shorts under school dresses and then they can play/ sit/ cartwheel to hearts content without showing parts of their body that they do need to learn are private eventually!! ( modern pants not up to job - one girls fell off her and she was embarrassed) Agree " flashing" is pejorative, but again, think poster needs to think of intent behind this which, whilst clumsily said, was based on practicality - regardless of family views on clothing kids ( i.e. naked on beach or not etc) with large numbers of little ones to supervise the worker probably just wants this child to be able to join in with all the non fashionista kids without bothering about having to tell her to tuck skirt in knickers in sand pit etc.

Some of the posters claiming knickers can't be relied on / expected to do the same job they've done for decades and that that's why suddenly an extra layer is required to do the job in addition honestly sound a bit mad. It's like it's so unthinkable to question the gendered nonsense being imposed on small girls that they have to contort their thinking in order to go along with something. If mothers questioned this like the op and others on this thread perhaps they might not be quite so compliant in imposing notions of shame and immodesty on thearth toddler daughters. I find it quite upsetting. The narrative in The Handmaids Tale began somewhere you know!

so now little girls have to wear leggings under dresses.?
How utterly ridiculous.
I work in a nursery and I would never tell a parent that. Little girls love wearing there pretty summer dresses and always show them off to the nursery staff.
It wouldn't even cross my mind about the knickers issue it's body shaming little girls and it's totally unnecessary.
Shocked at some of the comments on here TBH.

My primary school had the usual cotton summer dresses, and I loved them - much cooler and more comfortable than my PE kit as nothing elastic around the waist. I did feel sorry for the boys as they only had the shorts option. We could still run and climb and sit cross legged without showing our knickers, although I don't think seeing underwear is a problem anyway.

Scratchy carpets though... I still hate this, but I think that would mean shorts instead of skirts, rather than doubling up.

We did PE in our underwear at that age, and only changed separately in yr 6. The most concern anyone had for each other's knickers was someone wearing the day of the weeks ones on the wrong day.

If we stay in this area, dd will be at infant school with girls wearing headscarves and long sleeves and trousers in the summer so I imagine we will have discussions about what we wear and why, which I hope will be the starting point of a questioning attitude towards all rules about dress.

When and why did this become a "thing"?

OP, that is a very sweet little dress and entirely practical. My DDs wore dresses and somewhere I have a very sweet photo of them both in dresses and DD2, who is about 2 at the time, is wearing one that goes right down to her ankles. She didn't fall over it, stand on it, or anything of that nature and she was the world's clumsiest child! I know I also have a photo of her aged about 7, dressed in a party-type dress, on a go-cart and you can see her lovely clean, well fitting knickers.

Okay, my DGD is not quite of an age to wear knickers, but surely they haven't changed so much since my DDs were little that knickers are now totally ill-fitting? I am so glad the nursery manager agreed with you. I think I would have handed the key worker her head on a plate right there and then for saying what she said and the manager be damned! How dare she!

The tennis player Lindsay Davenport, at 6ft 2 1/2 inches, used to wear the most beautifully tailored tennis dresses to play in and she only had knickers on underneath. No comment was ever made about the occasional 'flash'. If you don't like dresses, that's fine, but keep your prejudices to yourself, especially if you work with young children.

As it happens, today I have on a lovely new summer dress with a lovely circular skirt. I almost did a 'Marilyn' earlier when the wind swirled around, but so what? I notice nobody has complained about her 'flashing her knickers' in that iconic photograph...

"Seeing her vulva through her knickers" eh? I've never seen this ever. I'm presuming this never happens unless someone is wearing very very tight pants which aren't appropriate for a child!

What is the worry about pants being seen, anyway?

YANBU - it's so wrong to sexualise kids at that age, and to teach a child to be ashamed of their body in any way is just horrendous.

The way she said 'we don't want the boys seeing your knickers' implies that, as a girl, it's important that she cover up, so that emphasises that it is girls that should make the effort to protect themselves from the male gaze. That in itself is bad, and perpetuates the 'boys are not responsible for their actions, girls are' idea. So harmful.

I would definitely have a word with the manager about this. Your DD shouldn't have to worry about this sort of thing and have it spoil her fun, especially not as early as 4! Kids get so worried about their bodies when they become teenagers and go through puberty anyway, she deserves to not have to worry about it now. It's not like she was running around naked (and even if she was, again she is 4!)

You are definitely in the right, OP

Yes, this drives me bonkers too! I teach 6 year olds and parents have started to think they need shorts under their school dresses. I just think it's crazy! If others see your knickers when you are at primary school - so what! I think it is sad that children are being made to think they should be hiding their bodies. (ok, years 5 and 6 may want to feel more covered up, but are also less likely to be flashing their undies anyway!) Plus, the summer dresses are to help with feeling too hot with loads of clothes on. Adding an extra layer with the shorts under is just making those children boiling hot!

It's not really coming from parents though. My dd is very self conscious. This may partly come from having an older brother (she is 8, he's 11). But she's even 'funny' about getting changed at swimming - in the girls changing rooms! I think they do get mixed messages because on the one hand you are reinforcing that private parts are PRIVATE and no one should touch them or be looking at them. Schools obviously teach this too. I have told my kids this to protect them from potential abuse. So seeing pants suddenly becomes 'wrong' to them too.

Still trying to figure this out...I think at some point kids realise underwear is private as no one walks down the road in pants and bra. I think the new shorts thing just latches onto that. It's not needed but my dd is more comfortable so why would I force her 'not to be silly' and just wear normal pants

I think fussing about knickers on a little girl is ridiculous.

However...we were out for a curry the other night. At the table next to us and straight in my eyeline was a young looking teenage girl sitting opposite her mum, celebrating the end of GCSEs. There were no table cloths over the tables so I could see this girl's lower half very clearly. She was wearing very short shorts and they were loose fitting. She had her legs quite wide apart and I saw her fanjo! I didn't say anything to the mum but I wonder whether I should.

She had her legs quite wide apart and I saw her fanjo

Could you have just..... not looked??

Just don't look fgs!!

What? I would be very crossed. It is sending such a bad message in my humble opinion. Not fair on boys or girls. I personally would have a word with her on the side and say that those comments are not appropriate
I work with children and I would never put that into a young child's head.
Bad. Bad