Why doesn't Corbyn understand that he lost?

[Sittinonthefloor]

I'm totally bemused! He thinks it's an absolutely 'incredible' result and that May should resign. Has no one told him that more people voted for her and the tories have more MPs? The tories ran an appalling campaign, trying to sell hugely unpopular policies, May comes across dreadfully (all twitchy and brittle) yet still more people voted for her - even with all the bribes he was offering. A decent candidate could have won it for labour, (Yvette cooper?) I know there's been a big swing, but still! Not winning against a poor opponent who's run a dreadful campaign is hardly a cause for celebration.

And as for young people, it was a fact that swathes who could have voted in them at age group did not vote in the referendum. No, that doesn't include all of them - but those who didn't bother getting involved suddenly loving the EU (as opposed to Europe, which some failed to separate) have decided to have a say now it seems, which has brought us (itvserns) to a Tory/dup coalition.

Again though, there's not a great deal of difference between the 18-25 turnout at the referendum and the (not yet confirmed) estimates of turnout yesterday. 5-10%. It was 64% in the referendum and the (quite likely overstated) NUS poll was 72% yesterday. If your definition of swathes is around a third, then swathes didn't vote in the GE either. This is big because it's the biggest youth participation in a GE in ages, not because the 18-25 turnout is much higher than it was last year.

Also, on what planet is it young people who've brought us a Tory/DUP coalition? It's the people who voted for those parties, not the people who disproportionately didn't.

The anger should be entirely directed at the Tories - they risked this country's future by holding a referendum on the EU at a time when we were going through austerity so could not afford the uncertainty and political instability it was always going to cause; and they risked this country's future yet again by calling a general election nobody wanted! It's appalling that those fools are still in charge. What idiot thing will they do, next?! Why do they keep playing Russian Roulette?!!! Trying to scare people to vote the way they want them to is not working.

Take there seats or not it's not gonna change anything conservatives have a massive majority simple as that

JC et al see this as a victory.

TBF they would have seen a much worse result as a victory. Len M said at the start of the campaign that moderate Labour losses would be a victory.

The point wasn't to win the country but the party.

Moomin - living through a Brexit deal is different. These are no ordinary times.

Also, while we're on the topic of NI politics, anyone who doesn't think the party with the second highest vote share can be the winners in any way, should have a look at the last Assembly elections there.

Sure, the DUP and Foster were the winners in that they got the most votes, just, and the most seats, just. But if things went just about as wrong for you as they realistically could have done in an election that only happened because of your arrogance and stupidity, if your opponent achieved beyond anyone's predictions despite (maybe because of) you and yours demonising them, and if you can't do what you need to do to form a functioning government yourself then, well, there's a pretty decent case that the party in second are bigger winners than you are, because you lost so hard. Does that sound familiar?

Sometimes, you need to do a bit more than count the seats.

roundabout.
I agree however I think they're all the same. Labour let us get into higher debt in boom times when they should have been saving for a rainy day. The tories came in to mop up the mess. And created a mess of their own. I don't think one party is better than the other. Corbyn didn't have the balls to stand as a remain contender in the referendum. We can't just point fingers in isolation.

Sinn Fein meeting ,bet the other MPs are over the moon that they may have to sit with murderers and terrioists alongside them

For those on here who claim Corbyn's economic policies are pie in the sky aspirations, I would like to know why there are eminent economists who back his policies and believe they could stimulate the economy after years of slow economic growth under austerity, are they all pie in the sky dreamers? Or perhaps after years of academic study they think the policies are just as valid as opposing economic theories? Even the IMF say austerity is not providing sufficient economic growth.

Take there seats or not it's not gonna change anything conservatives have a massive majority simple as that

I doubt any previous Labour leader would give them the time of day. Yes it won't change anything, but I hope people re-examine Corbyn's history.

Truth is the Tories backbencher are vicious and may not be that much easier to persuade than DUP.

TM is weaken but there isn't an obvious candidate in the Tories to take over. Who would want to atm really. So in some strange sort of way this failure may force them to work together.

I am keen to see if there is the return of the moderates to shadow cabinet.

Don't let facts get in the way of right wing sneering night.

Mummyoflittledragon - yes, we can point fingers in isolation. The Tories had the power to not hold a referendum and to not hold a general election. It was 100% a Tory choice to cause this chaos. As for saving for a rainy day: the global recession was not a rainy day, it was a colossal disaster caused by uncontrolled, insufficiently regulated capitalism. Thank God our public services had had a lot spent on them just before the bust, or imagine how much worse the situation would be, now, if they had already been seriously underfunded 10 years ago and then the Tories came along!!

Oh, and the DUP, anti abortion, anti gay marriage and a manifesto that is basically the bible with added bin collections.

Yep.

It's not that any one thing was pie in the sky nightshirt, it was the scattergun approach - mass amounts of freebies with no prioritisation; lots of superfluous 'goodies' that are great ideas for times of surplus, but untenable in times of deficit.

His promises were too numerous & too disparate, with no sound economic underpinnings.
It was shoddily costed & it risked pushing away the very people it was relying on to fund it (the higher tax payers & business).

It wasn't a manifesto commensurate with the current bigger shadow of Brexit, it simply wasn't going to deliver in the way it purported to.

It was excel spreadsheet balanced costings, not rigorously backed up & researched costings.

MoominFlaps

But you must have had an interest before wading through all the sniping and name calling.

And for many people the attitudes shown on here are why they take no part in the process (anecdotal)

Take there seats or not it's not gonna change anything conservatives have a massive majority simple as that

Erm, are you sure? Because last time I checked they had a minority, and even with the DUP it's 328 tops. 329 if they win Kensington and Chelsea which apparently they aren't going to. That is many things, but a massive majority it is not.

You know it's rare I think ageism truly exists and then I see threads like this. You said young people were too lazy to get off our arses and vote. Election after election, young people are criticised for the lack of engagement in politics. Then we turn out to vote and suddenly we're too naïve to know what we want. We want freebies. Best of all, we're doing it for the social media likes.

Just how fucking thick do you think we are? This is mumsnet but I'd be surprised if half of the people spouting this shite know anyone in the 18-30 age range. Too committed to the image of us lurking around council estates with phones we nicked, getting teenage pregnant and defying our ASBOs no doubt.

Unfortunately what you don't realise is that we came of age during 9/11. My peers have been debating and discussing the war on terror, Israel/Palestine, the Arab spring etc since we were just entering high school. Our universities are political hotbeds and genres like grime are bringing these discussions to previously disenfranchised groups such as young black men (see iconic clip of young guy saying he won't vote for TM because "she's clapped. On top of that, her policies are dead." ) if you think young people are interested in nothing but the hashtag, I suggest you go out and meet some fucking young people (plus what's to stop us just saying #votelabour and not even voting? We showed up.)

For most 18-30s we already have paid our tuition fees. Half of us will be paying £9,000 and were too young to even get a vote on that. In my age range there was a leave/remain mix, and those of us who wanted to remain had the very same arguments as 30+. But voting for Corbyn went beyond that. They gave us policies and a man we could believe in. If you think any other Labour Party could have engaged young people across the board I invite you to name them.

Finally, you do a massive disservice to the many young campaigners who did a fantastic job getting out there, campaigning, hitting doorsteps and so on. There was a massive social media coup, and the campaigners helped translate those likes of funny memes into real time votes.

But it's nice to know the generation that raised us has such a low opinion of us. Wow.

Too committed to the image of us lurking around council estates with phones we nicked, getting teenage pregnant and defying our ASBOs no doubt.

To be fair, I think the actual stereotype they're thinking of are hippy middle class dope smoking students too idealistic to see the Wisdom of The Tories.

Wouldn't it be nice to see no parties full stop,and decent people that want to represent there areas elected instead of the mess ups we continually have.
Its more like tom and jerry labour do something while in power then the conservatives come and change it and it's back and forward every few years ultimately wasting billions and billions just on implementing all these cat and mouse changes that ultimately are totally pointless normally.
I'm sure most things are just simply changed on principle that it was the other party that set it up no other reason and deffinately no common sense involved.
We recently had a poster on here that worked in government that quit her job simply because her job was a no job she went to work to do nothing like so much of government from top to the bottom.

@bojorojo selective memory? I remember the 79-97 period well - which was when rates were oscillating around 15% and the little adventure with ems when they (briefly) went much higher - would you happen to remember who was in government then?

Not at all.

I'm just thinking of myself at the same age is all.

Angry at the injustices I could see everywhere, great swells of hope (I was 22 for Blair) and an ideological view of what a better world we could be part of.

Then I got older & realised that for every action there's a reaction, ideology doesn't pay the bills, and politicians of all stripes are lying, self serving cunts.

I got old, and I got cynical.

But i still don't understand why JC can't admit defeat and why his disciples can't see that another candidate would probably really have won!

Because another candidate wouldn't have won. Corbyn has galvanised left wing voters like no other politician in a very long time. Labour have been centrist since Blair and nobody felt particularly passionate about the lack of progessive socialist ideas until he came along and stood firm.

My last post was in response to moomin & Fauche btw

Weird ! Unless maths has changed a lot since I went to school I'd call 318 votes to 261 a massive 57 vote difference but you call as you like,