TO BE ABSOLUTELY THRILLED AT A HUNG PARLIAMENT

[rolopolovolo]

This is the best outcome by miles. No hard brexit. (The city now predicts soft Brexit or even no Brexit!!!) No more crazy ideas by either side. Compromise. Tories given a good slap in the face for this stupid election.

This is the first election day in a long time with a good result!

The other 27 states might agree to withdrawal of the art 50 notice but as 90% of MPs were voted in last week on a Brexit ticket is anyone really suggesting that the Government has any right to cancel Brexit? The LIb dems were voted in on Remain but they are few and far between in the commons.

So there is no way Brexit won't go ahead,. The talks start in about 8 days time. The EU has its position - all set out which we can all read - www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/04/29-euco-brexit-guidelines/ and the talk will begin.

Oh and who cares who I usually vote for? Anyone (except ukip) has more morals than the Tories.

but as 90% of MPs were voted in last week on a Brexit ticket

I see this nonsense is being spouted on multiple threads. TM tried to persuade us that this election was all about Brexit. It wasn't.

I dont think brexit should be stopped

but as 90% of MPs were voted in last week on a Brexit ticket

But that's bollocks

But that's bollocks

Well that depends on if you believe manifestos. Both said no SM.

Corbyn and McDonnell both yesterday said no SM.

Will the DUP/Tories publish their manifesto? Or will it all be done behind closed doors?

We need transparency. We need to know.

It's just not that simple. People were not just voting about Brexit and in many places even if some wanted to vote Lib Dem they didn't stand a chance so people didn't bother and voted to oppose the Government . The Government where the PM said she needed a bigger mandate for Brexit so the only way they could show their opposition was to vote Labour ti reduce her majority.

It's much too simplistic to say 90% of MP's were voted in on a Brexit ticket. Unless there is another Referendum we just don't know how many people are still in favour of Leaving. A You Gov poll suggests that more people want to remain and You Gov was one of the few polls that did predict this election result but we just don't know.

One thing is for sure that trotting out statements and presenting them as fact does not work, neither does trying to ignore big chunks of the population which lead to the vote for Brexit and also to this election result. There needs to be a new way forward where a consensus is reached and the country can not ignore the fact that some have got progressively poorer whilst others have been getting progressively richer.

I don't know exactly what the solution is but we do all need to stop and think now. That's both sides. Stop chucking all the figures around blindly and think a little bit about the subtleties behind it all. Nothing is black and white and human behaviour is most definitely not. Start thinking more in terms of shades of grey and pragmatism.

It really is utter bollocks to say we all voted on Brexit. I am strongly remain and don't want Brexit, same for most of my friends. We voted labour because our local mp is the worst kind of Tory (trump supporter, hard brexiter) and labour were the only realistic option for ousting him. So we held our nose and voted labour DESPITE their stance on Brexit, not because of it. Do you genuinely think all the students are voting for Brexit too?
By that token we shouldn't even be brexiting as the electorate voted to stay in the single market in 2015

FWIW, I see labour as more pragmatic and flexible on Europe and with a higher proportion of remain MPs, so thought that they would be better at negotiating Brexit than the shitshow May and co have put on. They also emphatically stated that no deal was not better than a bad deal.

Honestly, the tories have had a year to prove the benefits of Brexit and look where we are. The whole mess should be shelved until someone comes up with a vaguely sensible plan for it which will be never.

FWIW, I see labour as more pragmatic

Yet as I said the leader and shadow Chancellor just yesterday said no SM.

Honestly, the tories have had a year to prove the benefits of Brexit and look where we are. The whole mess should be shelved until someone comes up with a vaguely sensible plan for it

Absolutely.

Yet if you read the manifestos on which all Labour and Tory MPs were voted in it is on a Brexit ticket. Before the election there wa sjust an almost 50/50 split under the referendum and arguably now it is 90/10. The MPs must push Brexit through unless they are lib dem.

That is one important reason May called the election.

Now I agree it is all a bit of a mess and feels ludicrous that there is that 90% Brexit mandate but it is there. (I write that as a Remainer by the way. I am not in favour of Brexit)

Labour was on this basis:
"Labour accepts the referendum
result and a Labour government
will put the national interest first.
We will prioritise jobs and living
standards, build a close new
relationship with the EU, protect
workers’ rights and environmental
standards, provide certainty

to EU nationals and give

a meaningful role to Parliament
throughout negotiations".
..

Britain needs to negotiate a Brexit
deal that puts our economy and
living standards first. That won’t
be achieved by empty slogans and
posturing. We cannot put at risk
our links with our largest trading
partner. Instead we need a jobs-first
Brexit that allows us to upgrade our
economy for the 21st century."

John McDonnell will never be pragmatic. Keri Starmer, however, who is their lead on Brexit, emphatically is. He also knows his arse from his elbow, unlike David Davis.

Whichever party plunges ahead with hard Brexit now will be committing political suicide. You can spin this election however you want but people don't want more austerity, that is clear. Austerity is what you will need to pay for a hard Brexit. How are you going to square that circle? You can't. Once people see their living standards drop then whichever party committed us to this farce will be in serious trouble.
Labour have already stated that their priority in Brexit talks is jobs, not immigration, their stance is softer.

Honestly, the delusional fantasies of brexitters- when will you start painting a realistic picture?!

People voted labour and conservative for all sorts of reasons

Most people were not rerunning the referendum...although they may have thought about who they wanted for the negotiations

The brexit ticket suggests that people voted purely to vote on whether we keft or not...which is untrue

Unless that is not what mary was suggesting in which case apologies

But it does sound an awful lot what she was suggesting

She was and its nonsense.

I want to Remain but voted Labour.

X posted

BolshyBookWorm - I couldn't agree more.

Is the option to limit (future) migration from newer member states that Tony Blair ignored (but which other countries are using even now) still open to the UK? Someone on the Today programme quoted the Lichtenstein example this morning, but it seems too simple and obvious a (partial) solution. Essentially (as I heard it) the numbers can be capped and job seekers can be sent home if they fail to find work within a stated period (3 months in Lichtenstein); obviously, the problem would be enforcing the rules. Anyone know?

Nor me, Tiggy!

Thank you for responding; I couldn't believe it was as simple as the speaker suggested!

but as 90% of MPs were voted in last week on a Brexit ticket

This is going to be the terribly convenient new Will of The People, isn't it? It's actually rather conveniently circular reasoning, IMHO.

1. Post the EURef, both main parties went completely Wibbly for the apparently Overwhelming Will of the People narrative, having invented some modern mathematics/biology synthesis which meant that 52% = 100%, and that 48% = chopped liver.

2. But thanks to FPTP, for all the supercilious sneering about how people could always vote for the anti-Brexit parties if they cared so much, most voters have no realistic choice but Red or Blue... (I was very grateful to be in one of the relatively few constituencies where I could vote for an actual pro-Remain party and see my vote count for something.)

3. Conveniently for Brexiteers, this leads to a "Heads I win, tails you lose" situation. Because now any election result anywhere on the Red->Blue spectrum = The People Voted For Brexit.

4. If the Tories had won their expected landslide, Brexiteers would have been triumphantly shouting from the rooftops that The People Voted for Brexit. If Labour had won, they could still have claimed that The People Voted For Brexit. So it's no surprise that, with a result in the middle, The People Have Still Voted For Brexit.

5. So we're back to the Overwhelming Will of the People once again, in which all parties find themselves having to agree with it, because TWOTP, and round and round we can go forever.

It's much too simplistic to say 90% of MP's were voted in on a Brexit ticket. Unless there is another Referendum we just don't know how many people are still in favour of Leaving.

I also agree that there was A LOT of tactical voting in this election to try and oust the Tories. So people voted for whichever party was most likely to do that - and in most cases that party was Labour. In Scotland many voters wanted rid of the SNP, hence the seats going Tory - a sight I thought I'd never see in my lifetime.

Re: Brexit - bar a new referendum (and hell will freeze over before we're given another one of those), the only fair way to decide on Britain's negotiating stance is to have a multi-party committee debate what sort of Brexit Britain should be aiming for. I'm a remainer and I'd dearly love Brexit to be dumped from the agenda, but I can't see that happening. Given that the country is so split though it's only fair to allow a selection of elected MPs from ALL parties have a say in how we negotiate. For a small number of Tories to be secretly plotting on their own with zero transparency is outrageous. This fucking awful situation affects us all and if the Tories have learned anything at all from the past 12 months of politics (which I doubt), they should realise that if Brexit is a total fuck-up and Britain ends up much worse off they'll be banished from govt for years. And I'm guessing they don't want that. The alternative to that is a debate on Brexit that is transparent, fair and inclusive.