TO BE ABSOLUTELY THRILLED AT A HUNG PARLIAMENT

[rolopolovolo]

This is the best outcome by miles. No hard brexit. (The city now predicts soft Brexit or even no Brexit!!!) No more crazy ideas by either side. Compromise. Tories given a good slap in the face for this stupid election.

This is the first election day in a long time with a good result!

It is entirely possible that the DUP will use their balance of power to get the Tories to force through any number of the swivel-eyed things they stand for - the erosion of abortion rights, equality and gay rights for starters.

It's a risk, yes. But last night's results and the surge in support for Labour has made it clear to the Conservatives that if they try and push a 'radical' agenda then they are likely to be given the boot altogether. So whilst a coalition partner might try and throw their weight behind imposing their own ideological/religious agenda, it's far more likely that the Tories are going to have to re-think policies full stop because there will be a significant portion of the Party that won't stomach the DUP's tactics and they'll rebel. It will also likely push many more voters towards Labour and the Lib Dems which will mean the Tories don't stand a chance in the next GE - and that's what will be preoccupying them right now. If they do get into bed with the DUP I suspect that another GE will not be far away, because this type of coalition will not be popular with a significant portion of voters.

Don't forget there is a considerable advantage for the DUP in getting a seat at the table, because they cannot risk a hard Brexit - so they don't hold the whip hand in this. Arlene Foster may well say that she won't enter a coalition with TM still in place, but the Tories could always go to plan B and tell them to sod off, that they will form a minority govt and work with other parties - like the Lib Dems - on an issue by issue basis. I think TM's position is compromised anyway, so I can't see her staying in place regardless.

Bad day for the elites.

Thanks @Vango

I disagree toffee.

If we leave the EU we are not members any longer. Therefore if we accept the terms initially these can potentially be tweaked over time if the EU need us more than we need them in the future. It will give us more freedom in the rest of the world rather than being locked into a situation where we are absolutely beholden to an organisation that is actually protectionist and anti free trade. Of course it requires several years and different parties sharing and implementing the vision.... Hmmm.

Any course of action has advantages and disadvantages. I don't necessarily think that hard brexit is unworkable, but I simply cannot see how it can work alongside austerity.

The legal view is that triggering article 50 can certainly be undone.

1. I don't actually think Labour would have done so well if it were not for Jeremy Corbyn, as I think their manifesto would have been limp wristed and pathetic and the campaigning considerably less charismatic. Labour promised so much it's alarming, but it worked. Idiotic to think another leader would have achievd what Jeremy Corbyn has achieved in this election.
2. The Tories are 100% to blame for the mess and instability - they are arrogant, small-minded, incompetent, hard hearted, tight-fisted idiots.
3. Boris Johnson is a laughing stock. He is not a vote winner for the Tories - he showed what a shallow buffoon he was in the referendum campaign. Nobody is the conservative party is attractive as a potential leader.

Re: the DUP being adept at horse trading - yes they are. However that's on their home turf, where there is very little separation of Church and State in practice. Religion still plays a huge part in Irish politics and many laws are rooted in religious doctrine - abortion being the notable one.

Contrast that to mainland Britain, where religion plays very little part in politics - with the exception of terrorist incidents related to religious extremism. There is a much greater groundswell of support here for equality - of marriage, pay, treatment etc. There is also a firm pro-choice stance where people may say that they don't like abortion, but they agree that it should be legal.

So the DUP's horse trading experience is not likely to be helpful for them if they are starting from a position where they're in the minority opinion anyway - especially as the Tories know that any attempt to impose the DUP's doctrine would probably be deeply unpopular and a vote loser. It also wouldn't be in the DUP's interest either - as they'd need the Tories in order to maintain a seat at the table. Pushing their agenda through regardless would result in the Tories losing the next GE and the Opposition gaining power - who would never work with the DUP.

Boris v Jeremy in September?

Well, the young people have spoken! No more policies only for old rich boomers in million pound houses with huge pensions and free education, all paid for by the young working for minimum wage, sharing a room in a grotty buy-to-let!
Eh? My DS and his friends voted Labour to save c£30k in university fees. They're all going to be medics, engineers etc, and come from wealthy families. Lots are planning to go overseas - my DS to Oz.

Meanwhile, many of the DC of my friends are going into jobs, if they can get them, where they will pay taxes to fund my DC and his friends. I would be happy to pay more tax to fund the NHS etc, but I'm not a high earner.

Boris v Jeremy in September?
Boris who was really a remainer, and Jeremy who was really a Brexiter. Meanwhile, in the US, we'll be watching an impeachment??? It really is back to the 1970s...

DUP know that a hard Brexit and getting out of the single market would be suicidal for Northern Ireland. I can't imagine them supporting negotiations leading to no deal. Unlike the posh Tory boys they are not blinded by their own importance and the dream of the British Empire rising from its ashes because they have the southern counties underneath their noses every day and they know how important ROI is for Northern Ireland. I know plenty of people commuting to ROI everyday to work for the big multinationals - none of them wants to see the introduction of passport controls and work permits. Alongside the border, business is closely interconnected.
DUP know pretty well that if they support anything that would damage that business, they're gone and the calls for United Ireland will be back and more real than ever.

The DUP aren't idiots. There is no possibility of their seeking to make changes to UK mainland law on things like abortion.

I'm completely puzzled how Corbyn thinks he can run a minority government.

With 10 days before Brexit talks start, there has to be mileage in aiming for a National government. If Corbyn is serious about being willing to serve as a minority government, then Labour's perspective and supporters must step up and play a constructive part in achieving a sensible negotiation with the EU. Everybody will have to sacrifice some of their sacred cows on the altar of rationality.

Indeed Quite. Will be interesting to see the next manifesto promises.

Therefore if we accept the terms initially these can potentially be tweaked over time if the EU need us more than we need them in the future.

The thing that "won" or "lost" the referendum was freedom of movement. The EU will not compromise on that. if they had, the referendum may not even have happened let alone been lost/won. We accept freedom of movement that we will see the rise of UKIP again and I would hope any exit bill would be voted down by exiteers within parliament. You can't tweak freedom of movement.

The danger with a hung parliament is that any deal will be voted down regardless

Anyone would think that this general election was imposed upon an unwilling TM by alien mind-control rays and now the Tories are poor little helpless victims.

And I'm sure I read plenty of explanations that a 17% drop in the £ post-EURef was the best news in the universe ever, because we were going to make an absolute killing on exports of artisan jams and our economy was going to soar because of it.

But now, of course, a 2% drop in the £ is the End of the World.

OK then.

I am so with you. First time in a year that I have actually felt hopeful and that feel like there has been a jolt and that the very hard right may be receding and that England will go back to being the open, tolerant and unique country I loved it for . Chuffed and couldn't believe it. ...No if only they could reverse brexit (but I know I am dreaming on this).

I'm completely puzzled how Corbyn thinks he can run a minority government.

He can't. They'd never get the Queens Speech through.

It's a tactic to force May's hand.

paul
Are you busy this afternoon?
Because you are exactly the sort of person I want to be having exactly this chat with in the pub later

Yes, I agree the DUP don't have the skill set to horsetrade on a bigboy stage but their track record shows how utterly dogmatic and stubborn they can and will be
If they start digging their heels in over something, they will sooner bring government to a halt than to compromise

Look at Belgium and ireland - government shut downs don't do anyone any good...

I'm completely puzzled how Corbyn thinks he can run a minority government.

I don't think he truly thinks that he can. I suspect this is a tactic to make him look prepared, calm and like a Leader - which throws sharp relief on the Tories who have been caught on the back foot. It puts pressure on them to get an agreement in place ASAP so that they can take back control of the message and conversation, because as long as JC is sitting saying "I'm ready, we're prepared" it makes the other side look disorganised and chaotic because they're busy running round trying to frantically get something in place so that they can govern.

It also highlights the fact that the Labour leader is here, talking to the press and visible, whereas the Conservative leader - who is also the PM - is hidden from view and silent. TM has an hour or two at most before she has to get out there and say something, because if she doesn't then there is zero chance of her being able to stay on as people will lose what little confidence they have left.

First time in a year that I have actually felt hopeful and that feel like there has been a jolt and that the very hard right may be receding
One thing to bear in mind is that (in seats so far declared) the Conservatives got 48.6% of the vote and Labour 40.2%. So, if it was not for TM holding an unnecessary election and blowing her lead, it's actually not a bad result for the Cons, considering we all hate austerity!

I'm completely puzzled how Corbyn thinks he can run a minority government.

I think perhaps lack of sleep is affecting his cognitive function

Thanks to PaulDacres and Lass for calming me down about the DUP, but what on earth would they want to join forces with the Cons for if not to push their ideals? At the least Northern Ireland's religious bent would be shored up.

I would remind people that we last had a National Government in times of war. It served us well then. It's a way of combining all resources to protect the national interest. Which is surely what we should be doing in the face of Brexit, and in a time of climate change. I don't see how that vote could result in any other legitimate - and stable - solution. We also have Corbyn's stated will to talk and form peace in play so I think it is eminently possible.

And not a single member of the cabinet would agree to speak on R4 this morning. I know, I know....they're busy.