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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that most people on Mumsnet would like to live like this?

384 replies

Uktopia · 08/06/2017 08:36

I live in a European country and have done for twenty years.

After one to three years' maternity leave (paid by the state, not the employer), which can be taken by either parent, nursery care is free from the age of one until the start of school.

University is free and all who graduate high school are admitted. Child benefit (non-means-tested) is paid until the child is 27 as long as they are in education.

I can always see the GP the same day. I can self refer to 8 different specialists per year and often get an appointment within a week or two and sometimes the same or next day (for more than 8, the GP can refer). Dentists (and for children, orthodontists) are included. If you have a chronic health condition, you can be prescribed a spa stay of three weeks to a specialised centre to help you manage your condition. Medical-grade breast pumps are prescribed to new mothers. There is no concept of a waiting list for operations or treatment. Sick pay is paid by the health system, as is carer's leave when your kids are sick. Disability benefits are permanent where the disability is unlikely to improve; no revaluation needed. IVF is free for four cycles per child and you can have as many children as you would have wanted had you not had fertility problems (guess what, most people stop at two).

Social housing is plentiful and no private landlords are involved in the system at all. For families with children with average incomes, the waiting lists are short. In the private property market, there is rent control and a lot of protection for tenants, so people can feel that a rented house is a home. Property speculation is disincentivised so house prices are fair. The state offers interest free loans to improve the basic amenities of your home, such as heating.

Unemployment insurance pays 80% of your last wage (to a cap of approx. 2.5% of the average income). For the first 7 months you are not obliged to take a job that pays less than your previous one or that is not in your field; after that you have to jump through a few hoops but nothing like the jobcentre. If you lose your eligibility for unemployment and have no income, you get emergency money of approx. £700 per month for as long as it takes. Despite it being very easy to stay on benefits, unemployment is low and recent years have seen periods of full employment.

Every four years, if your employer agrees, you can take a one year educational sabbatical anywhere in the world and the state pays 80% of your salary. I got my Oxford graduate degree for free. My job was protected until I went back.

Public transport is faster than driving as services are so frequent. A full annual all zones pass in the capital city costs less than £1 a day. An annual pass covering all public transport in the whole country, unlimited, is approx. £950. The rail system is state owned and tickets are based on a per kilometre price, rather than being pushed up by market forces.

Crime is low. Kids walk to school alone from a young age and women walk home alone at night at 3am.

When I earned exactly the average income (then £12,000 p.a.) I paid almost zero tax. Now I earn a lot more, so pay a lot of tax, but from my net income I can still comfortably save 50% as the cost of living is low even in the capital. The economy is fairly buoyant in general and most people would count as prosperous in the UK.

There's no nanny state or increased governmental control (in fact, the UK exerts much more control over its citizens). There's just a general lack of anxiety about the trials of life such as unemployment or disability.

It's no utopia, and the people are so used to some of these provisions that they take them totally for granted.

The UK could have this, and to be honest, I think we'd do it better and appreciate it more. Hearing people ridicule magical money trees while living in a real system like this is heartbreaking.

Voting Conservative today will take us further from a country like this than ever before.

OP posts:
LinzerTorte · 08/06/2017 13:22

x-posts Salzundessig - have you come across the expression jammern auf hohem Niveau? ("complaining at a high level" - a bit like "first world problem") Fits Austria to a T!

Salzundessig · 08/06/2017 13:22

Coddi and Bill - the rerun was because some constituencies started counting postal votes before 9am on Monday morning. Fpö contested it to see if they could change the result and the other guy won with a bigger majority. It will be interesting to see if they gain a foothold in the parliamentary election in October though but it won't be 40%. Polarisation of politics is rife everywhere but that doesn't mean Austria isn't an awesome place to live.

Salzundessig · 08/06/2017 13:25

Linzertorte that fits my Mil to a T Grin

ArseyTussle · 08/06/2017 13:27

Budge up all your Austria-dwellers, I love a good grumble about nothing. Grin

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 08/06/2017 13:30

So eine Jammerei the OP has verschwunden.

How's that for a grumble?

NaServus · 08/06/2017 13:32

Griaß euch, die Damen! Yes, I think it's Austria too. And it was great to see the FPÖ candidate lose twice.

ravenmum · 08/06/2017 13:35

And are the people really all so laid back and happy in Austria? Without a worry about unemployment or disability? Taxes only for the excessively rich?

GhostsToMonsoon · 08/06/2017 13:37

With that long post couldn't the name of the country have been included? Or is it a compilation?

Last time I went Austria didn't have an indoor smoking ban which put me off.

Most of the things in the OP sound great but presumably taxes are high - 'free' childcare must be subsidised by taxes. And perhaps it is less acceptable to be a SAHM? Not convinced about everyone going to university either; it might result in overcrowded lecture halls and people dropping out after the first year. Is it like Germany where people are nearly 30 before they graduate?

NaServus · 08/06/2017 13:41

Blimey no, raven. I'm doing last year's tax return as we speak and they're definitely not only for the excessively rich!

ravenmum · 08/06/2017 13:46

Shame NaServus, or I'd be on the next bus :)

HeteronormativeHaybales · 08/06/2017 13:50

Igneo, re Germany, the Praxisgebühr was scrapped I think about 6 or 7 years ago. Now you have to be referred to a specialist via your GP/Hausarzt, but they tend to be over-enthusiastic with referrals tbh instead of the opposite. I've been to my GP knowing what was the matter (and that it was something simple and straightforward) and got 'ooh, we'd better refer you to the dermatologist/orthopaedist/gynaecologist just in case'. GPs don't see children (which means up to 16/18) - they have to go to a paediatrician, but they are effectively GPs for children so no prob with getting to see one whenever.

Coverage with doctors is very, very variable regionally. I used to live in a Thuringian backwater and for some reason it was teeming with doctors. Had a choice of three paediatricians in a town of 12,000, cardiologist appt within 2 weeks. I now live an hour from Berlin and when we moved here we struggled to get a GP to take us on (until eventually the local health centre recruited an extra one) and I would have had to wait 6 months for a gynae appt if I'd wanted or needed to stay in this town Shock

I am about to go self-employed and my health insurance bill will be significantly more (it is currently taken from my salary at source), but it can be adjusted downwards based on my expected income and I can offset all contributions against tax.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 08/06/2017 13:53

Why is child benefit available until 27? That's ridiculous.

LinzerTorte · 08/06/2017 13:54

Nice to see some fellow Austrians on here!

It's perfectly acceptable to be a SAHM, at least where I live, although most return to work - at least part-time - when the DC are older.

Dropping out of university doesn't seem to be any more common in Austria than in the UK, but changing courses may well be; I know quite a few students who've started one course, decided it's not for them and then switched. It also (when DH was a student) used to be quite common for students to study into their late twenties and even beyond, but that may well have changed since the introduction of bachelor's and master's degrees. If you want to study medicine, you have to take an entrance exam but otherwise, you can enrol on any course you like (not sure if there may be one or two more exceptions - veterinary medicine, maybe?).

Lots of Austrians smoke, but an indoor smoking ban has now been introduced. If you sit outside at a cafe, however, it's quite likely that you'll have smoke from the next table wafting over.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 08/06/2017 13:56

But how is it paid for? Presumably someone has to pay for it?

LinzerTorte · 08/06/2017 13:58

I couldn't quite believe it when I first heard about child benefit until 27 (now 24) either. Two of DH's friends (a couple in their mid-20s) were talking about their child benefit and I thought they must have a secret baby stashed away somewhere.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 08/06/2017 13:59

As for us wanting to live like this - errrrr no.

I don't have children so it doesn't sound like this system would benefit me any more than the UK system. When everyone is off on parental leave, presumably everyone else will be working their arses off to pay tax for this? If they do it without rinsing the population then it's a miracle

EssentialHummus · 08/06/2017 14:01

Re paying - I don't know, but I'd wager that on the whole taxes are higher (and I think in Austria there's a contribution-based health service?), the population is fairly low and for a variety of reasons their defence, policing and social services outgoings are lower.

Slimthistime · 08/06/2017 14:06

I'm honestly wondering if this was a post designed to prompt people to vote Conservative...

GhostsToMonsoon · 08/06/2017 14:08

It does sound quite Utopian for families. And the Alps on the doorstep...
Does Austria have a low birth rate hence all these perks for parents?

LinzerTorte · 08/06/2017 14:08

EssentialHummus Yes, I don't pay tax most years as my income isn't high enough, but a substantial chunk of my income (just under 30% after the first €5,000) goes on social insurance, which covers healthcare, pension, unemployment insurance, etc.

Oh, and child benefit increases the more children you have and the older they get.

NaServus · 08/06/2017 14:09

Parents work and pay tax too you know, Livia!

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 08/06/2017 14:12

I know they do - but presumably if they are off for three years between them, they won't be? And that would surely cost more than they will have paid in tax

NaServus · 08/06/2017 14:17

Well, I'm self-employed so I wasn't able to take three years off! All my social insurance contributions are tax-deductible though. Generally I'd say we pay a lot in but get a lot out as well. I'm happy enough with it.

Just don't get me started about the mile-long list of school equipment I'm expected to provide at the start of every term.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 08/06/2017 14:20

That sounds grim tbh. But then I would rather not have to pay most of my salary to the government!

Are there any non family related positives for healthy people!

Natsku · 08/06/2017 14:21

Hmm maybe a move to Austria is in order! Though I don't think I'm up for learning another language, struggle enough with two.

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