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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that most people on Mumsnet would like to live like this?

384 replies

Uktopia · 08/06/2017 08:36

I live in a European country and have done for twenty years.

After one to three years' maternity leave (paid by the state, not the employer), which can be taken by either parent, nursery care is free from the age of one until the start of school.

University is free and all who graduate high school are admitted. Child benefit (non-means-tested) is paid until the child is 27 as long as they are in education.

I can always see the GP the same day. I can self refer to 8 different specialists per year and often get an appointment within a week or two and sometimes the same or next day (for more than 8, the GP can refer). Dentists (and for children, orthodontists) are included. If you have a chronic health condition, you can be prescribed a spa stay of three weeks to a specialised centre to help you manage your condition. Medical-grade breast pumps are prescribed to new mothers. There is no concept of a waiting list for operations or treatment. Sick pay is paid by the health system, as is carer's leave when your kids are sick. Disability benefits are permanent where the disability is unlikely to improve; no revaluation needed. IVF is free for four cycles per child and you can have as many children as you would have wanted had you not had fertility problems (guess what, most people stop at two).

Social housing is plentiful and no private landlords are involved in the system at all. For families with children with average incomes, the waiting lists are short. In the private property market, there is rent control and a lot of protection for tenants, so people can feel that a rented house is a home. Property speculation is disincentivised so house prices are fair. The state offers interest free loans to improve the basic amenities of your home, such as heating.

Unemployment insurance pays 80% of your last wage (to a cap of approx. 2.5% of the average income). For the first 7 months you are not obliged to take a job that pays less than your previous one or that is not in your field; after that you have to jump through a few hoops but nothing like the jobcentre. If you lose your eligibility for unemployment and have no income, you get emergency money of approx. £700 per month for as long as it takes. Despite it being very easy to stay on benefits, unemployment is low and recent years have seen periods of full employment.

Every four years, if your employer agrees, you can take a one year educational sabbatical anywhere in the world and the state pays 80% of your salary. I got my Oxford graduate degree for free. My job was protected until I went back.

Public transport is faster than driving as services are so frequent. A full annual all zones pass in the capital city costs less than £1 a day. An annual pass covering all public transport in the whole country, unlimited, is approx. £950. The rail system is state owned and tickets are based on a per kilometre price, rather than being pushed up by market forces.

Crime is low. Kids walk to school alone from a young age and women walk home alone at night at 3am.

When I earned exactly the average income (then £12,000 p.a.) I paid almost zero tax. Now I earn a lot more, so pay a lot of tax, but from my net income I can still comfortably save 50% as the cost of living is low even in the capital. The economy is fairly buoyant in general and most people would count as prosperous in the UK.

There's no nanny state or increased governmental control (in fact, the UK exerts much more control over its citizens). There's just a general lack of anxiety about the trials of life such as unemployment or disability.

It's no utopia, and the people are so used to some of these provisions that they take them totally for granted.

The UK could have this, and to be honest, I think we'd do it better and appreciate it more. Hearing people ridicule magical money trees while living in a real system like this is heartbreaking.

Voting Conservative today will take us further from a country like this than ever before.

OP posts:
Igneococcus · 08/06/2017 11:37

Have they ravenmum? I didn't know that. The Praxisgebuehr always did annoy people more than I thought reasonable.

Sunfun11 · 08/06/2017 11:38

"a 27 year old who had a child would have their parent getting child benefit for them and they'd get child benefit for their child."

Only if they are in full time education.

Mytrustybucket1 · 08/06/2017 11:42

As PP mentioned, I'm pretty sure we are talking Austria here.
Have lived here over 30 years (born in UK) and agree with all points mentioned.
Am actually undergoing free, instant medical treatment atm. Ds attends free uni and will get child benefits paid directly to him (has moved out) until his first degree (now that bachelor degrees have been introduced, that is expected at 24 at the latest; in my time as a student here there were only masters and up, hence til age 27).
Recognized the £1 a day for public transport recently introduced (was pretty affordable before that too though).
Am not planning on moving in the near future...

ravenmum · 08/06/2017 11:42

child benefit. OMD. Designed after the war to encourage more births. yet we still have it.
In Germany the birthrate is faltering, but the whole idea is for the younger generation to support the one who came before them. People are most definitely being encouraged to have children, yes. Is it different in the UK?

nina2b · 08/06/2017 11:42

Why start something and then not have the courtesy to respond to valid points?

Smellbellina · 08/06/2017 11:49

it isn't what the British want. I don't think that they would even mind the taxation levels, it's the idea that if they had all of that, their neighbours would have to have it too
That's it in a nutshell

BarbaraofSeville · 08/06/2017 11:50

I wouldn't be confident in the quality of healthcare in Spain. I know three people who have had sporting accidents in Spain, been to hospital there for X-rays, been told it's just bruising and on continuing to suffer pain go to hospital in the UK on their return home to be told it's a broken bone. Two of these needed operations.

Personal care in Spanish hospitals isn't at UK levels either - it is expected that patients are fed and washed by relatives when in hospital.

'The system' in the UK is better than some countries and worse than others. But there are huge cultural differences, many of which down to how unequal our society is. A lot of these countries where taxes are higher have a more equal society and are culturally less likely to have very extravagent lifestyles that the rich in the UK have.

But in the UK the people with all the money also want to keep it for themselves and have all the power. Making the UK like whichever country the OP is referring to would be beneficial for most people, but I can't see how it will practically work - the cultural shift would be too great, and the highly paid who pay the majority of taxes are likely to hide their money or fuck off elsewhere, so where would that leave us?

Those who are saying that this would work in the UK, please explain how?

EssentialHummus · 08/06/2017 11:54

hereyougo your description of Russia echoes Russian DH's. I'm still put off moving there because of other aspects of society/government and my inability to use any of the six bloody cases correctly after two years of lessons but there are lots of things that Russia does well.

I recently had a chat in English with my 10 yo Russian nephew - they live in a fairly remote small town on the Latvian border, and students are taught in two shifts. Despite that, and despite the fact that they start school at 7, he held a conversation with me which I reckon would be a good GCSE pass in a MFL in this country.

Coddiwomple · 08/06/2017 11:54

Isn't it in Austria that the FPO received 46% of the votes in the second round of the last presidential election?

explodingkittens · 08/06/2017 12:00

I don't think it would work in the UK barbara, for precisely the cultural/attitudinal reasons you suggest.

We are our own worst enemies these days, gleefully engaged in turning ourselves into a sad, isolated, backwards little nation.

BillSykesDog · 08/06/2017 12:03

Yep, coddi. They had to rerun the election because it was so close between the far right guy and the other one.

So not quite sure why it's utopia.

stevie69 · 08/06/2017 12:04

I don't think that I'd like to live like that, no. I like the way I'm living here in the UK to be honest. It sounds like a soulless community with nothing happening. Wouldn't suit me Sad

S

UrsulaPandress · 08/06/2017 12:11

And your point is OP?

AbundantFenestration · 08/06/2017 12:18

Belgium has many of the things listed above. Not the maternity leave though. Child Benefit increases for each child, crèches are subsidized, pre-school is free from 2.5. Same day doctors appointments. Shedloads of tax though. The 50% rate starts at about 38000 euros with social security on top.

pigsDOfly · 08/06/2017 12:24

Well, that's lovely for you OP sounds great. Enjoy.

But if you honestly think that the UK voting for JC and bringing in a chaotic coalition headed by Labour is going to result in Britain having all those things, then you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

llangennith · 08/06/2017 12:40

OP has disappeared up her own....

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 08/06/2017 12:52

So while everyone is off for three years on parental leave subsidised by the state, who is paying taxes to afford this? The tax rate must be batshit

KeepAwayDaphne · 08/06/2017 12:58

Watch out Coddi and Bill, you're getting dangerously close there to admitting that 54%/46% is a very close result that demands a rerun. Sauce for the goose and all that Grin

ravenmum · 08/06/2017 13:05

It sounds like a soulless community with nothing happening.
Where do you get that impression from? Just the fact that the OP focuses on the "nice" aspects and doesn't mention anything exciting? Do explain further or I will assume totally unreasonably that you mean "no risk, no fun" - that a country with a good bit of crime and unemployment keeps people on their toes :)

Charmageddon · 08/06/2017 13:07

Placemarking to find out where it is....

Creampastry · 08/06/2017 13:12

Sounds like Greece.... look what's happened there.... with Italy and Spain following closely...

lucydogz · 08/06/2017 13:16

I keep on coming back to see if the OP has returned to tell us where this wonderful place is. 8 pages on and they haven't, really odd, especially after typing such an enourmous post.

Salzundessig · 08/06/2017 13:18

It's Austria. I live here and it is awesome. Downsides are Austrians complain about everything (hence standards not slipping ) and xenophobia is rife. Xenophobia is on the rise in the UK though apparently. I'd never move back without decent health insurance and private schooling for my kids.

LinzerTorte · 08/06/2017 13:18

I also think it could be Austria, as so much fits. Didn't realise there was a limit on self-referrals, though, and as a previous poster said, child benefit is now "only" available until the age of 24 rather than 27.

Have never heard of anyone taking a sabbatical, but after a quick google, it appears that civil servants/government employees are entitled to do so (there's no legal entitlement for people working in the private sector, but sabbaticals "may be arranged").

Sunfun11 · 08/06/2017 13:20

"Sounds like Greece.... look what's happened there.... with Italy and Spain following closely..."so ignorant and arrogant. Oh well Smile