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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that most people on Mumsnet would like to live like this?

384 replies

Uktopia · 08/06/2017 08:36

I live in a European country and have done for twenty years.

After one to three years' maternity leave (paid by the state, not the employer), which can be taken by either parent, nursery care is free from the age of one until the start of school.

University is free and all who graduate high school are admitted. Child benefit (non-means-tested) is paid until the child is 27 as long as they are in education.

I can always see the GP the same day. I can self refer to 8 different specialists per year and often get an appointment within a week or two and sometimes the same or next day (for more than 8, the GP can refer). Dentists (and for children, orthodontists) are included. If you have a chronic health condition, you can be prescribed a spa stay of three weeks to a specialised centre to help you manage your condition. Medical-grade breast pumps are prescribed to new mothers. There is no concept of a waiting list for operations or treatment. Sick pay is paid by the health system, as is carer's leave when your kids are sick. Disability benefits are permanent where the disability is unlikely to improve; no revaluation needed. IVF is free for four cycles per child and you can have as many children as you would have wanted had you not had fertility problems (guess what, most people stop at two).

Social housing is plentiful and no private landlords are involved in the system at all. For families with children with average incomes, the waiting lists are short. In the private property market, there is rent control and a lot of protection for tenants, so people can feel that a rented house is a home. Property speculation is disincentivised so house prices are fair. The state offers interest free loans to improve the basic amenities of your home, such as heating.

Unemployment insurance pays 80% of your last wage (to a cap of approx. 2.5% of the average income). For the first 7 months you are not obliged to take a job that pays less than your previous one or that is not in your field; after that you have to jump through a few hoops but nothing like the jobcentre. If you lose your eligibility for unemployment and have no income, you get emergency money of approx. £700 per month for as long as it takes. Despite it being very easy to stay on benefits, unemployment is low and recent years have seen periods of full employment.

Every four years, if your employer agrees, you can take a one year educational sabbatical anywhere in the world and the state pays 80% of your salary. I got my Oxford graduate degree for free. My job was protected until I went back.

Public transport is faster than driving as services are so frequent. A full annual all zones pass in the capital city costs less than £1 a day. An annual pass covering all public transport in the whole country, unlimited, is approx. £950. The rail system is state owned and tickets are based on a per kilometre price, rather than being pushed up by market forces.

Crime is low. Kids walk to school alone from a young age and women walk home alone at night at 3am.

When I earned exactly the average income (then £12,000 p.a.) I paid almost zero tax. Now I earn a lot more, so pay a lot of tax, but from my net income I can still comfortably save 50% as the cost of living is low even in the capital. The economy is fairly buoyant in general and most people would count as prosperous in the UK.

There's no nanny state or increased governmental control (in fact, the UK exerts much more control over its citizens). There's just a general lack of anxiety about the trials of life such as unemployment or disability.

It's no utopia, and the people are so used to some of these provisions that they take them totally for granted.

The UK could have this, and to be honest, I think we'd do it better and appreciate it more. Hearing people ridicule magical money trees while living in a real system like this is heartbreaking.

Voting Conservative today will take us further from a country like this than ever before.

OP posts:
BeyondDespairandRepair · 08/06/2017 14:25

why is it a secret where this country is - is it because if we know it wont stand up to scrunity.

however a quick skim seems to bely this is austria? if thats so I would like to know - went recently and loved it, and DH speaks german Grin

NaServus · 08/06/2017 14:30

Yes - if she was indeed talking about Austria the OP was right when she said it's generally very safe for women to be out and about alone at night.

Also excellent, reliable, cheap public transport (in Vienna, anyway) and comparably affordable housing.

Mountains, lakes, amazing cultural facilities ...

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 08/06/2017 14:31

Why the child benefit until mid 20s? Seriously that's baffling - everyone seems to be getting lots from the government, that's not cheap

NaServus · 08/06/2017 14:33

I really don't know why the prolonged child benefit. Anyone else aware of the rationale behind it?

Slimthistime · 08/06/2017 14:36

I'm unclear from the OP posts if healthcare has charges attached

also if someone can have study subbed till 27 - 27!! - their pension pot will be smaller

this employment insurance that pays you 70% if you go out of work - how is that funded? Do I want to fund that for someone who loses their £400k hedge fund job? Is it self funded - in which case it's irrelevant - but I don't think OP will be back to answer questions anyway.

All very confusing.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 08/06/2017 14:37

Sounds like a socialist utopia - I'm sure if people knew where it was, plenty would be going there tomorrow in the unlikely event that labour lose

indigox · 08/06/2017 14:50

Sounds like Luxembourg, which is the 2nd richest country in the world, the UK is no where close.

Oliversmumsarmy · 08/06/2017 14:51

42% tax on €32000 per year income

hereyougoagain · 08/06/2017 14:52

EssentialHummus,

Even if visas-wise for DH it was easy to move to Russia, all things considered(pollution, corruption etc) I wouldn't want to move and live there now. Though my eldest DChild went to uni there and stayed on.
To be honest it's difficult for me to compare fairly, because I grew up and lived in Moscow only, and here moved from one small town to another. So basically I've been comparing my local provincial experiences with services available in a capital of a big country.

Things like healthcare or schooling would be roughly universal whether you live in a small or a big place, however general level of facilities/roads/infrastructure etc in Russia would usually be drastically lower in a small town far away from the capital. And Moscow is too polluted and overcrowded nowadays for my liking.
I'd consider living in the centre of St.Petersburg for a year or two :).

Igneococcus · 08/06/2017 14:54

HeteronormativeHaybales I'm in rural Scotland now and it is almost impossible to see any specialist. It seems all of Paisley has just one ENT specialist who deals with lumps in the thryoid. I have finally managed to get an appointment in a few months time (my thyroid will be visible from the space station by then) somehwere on the other side of Glasgow, for which I will have to leave about 3 hours earlier to get there. Where were you in Thueringen? I'm from just South of Thueringen in Unterfranken (left in 1994 though).
It's not Germany sticklebrix childcare is cheaper than in the UK but not free there.

Igneococcus · 08/06/2017 14:58

I really don't know why the prolonged child benefit. Anyone else aware of the rationale behind it?

I think it might be because student loans are means tested, in Germany at least, don't know about Austria. Parents are meant to support children through university (and can be sued if they don't), so children in education are still counted as dependents, if that makes sense.

BorisTrumpsHair · 08/06/2017 15:00

I'm guessing Norway. Sounds like heaven and yes I would love to live somewhere like that.

UserThenLotsOfNumbers · 08/06/2017 15:06

I'd like a lot of things OP, but that doesn't mean they will happen lol

mummabearfoyrbabybears · 08/06/2017 15:08

Definitely not Germany. We lived there for 10 years and the cost of living was crippling. Most Germans lose about 50% of their wage in tax, and VAT (Umsatzsteuer) has been 20% ish for decades. .

Salzundessig · 08/06/2017 15:09

There are no interest free student loans but I did my MA and worked part time to fund it. My dh says that achievement isn't rewarded in the same way as the UK or us. He hated that when he was younger but now appreciates the equality here.

EssentialHummus · 08/06/2017 15:10

hereyou my DH is originally from Arkhangelsk but would only consider very central Moscow (and wants the DC to attend School 57 or nothing Grin). I've told him it is unlikely to happen! I'm from South Africa originally and see uncomfortable parallels.

LinzerTorte · 08/06/2017 15:16

I'd agree that students are still often seen as dependents. I know four and all four are still living at home (two tried living in a hall of residence/away from home and didn't like it), so in that respect it makes sense for their parents to still be receiving child benefit for them. Not sure that's a representative sample, though!

Natsku · 08/06/2017 15:18

this employment insurance that pays you 70% if you go out of work - how is that funded? Do I want to fund that for someone who loses their £400k hedge fund job? Is it self funded - in which case it's irrelevant - but I don't think OP will be back to answer questions anyway

Not sure about the insurance fund OP talks about but in employment insurance funds here in Finland at least people pay in to a particular Union fund so its all people in the same area of work funding each other, and the pay-out is limited to a certain income level (something over 3000 euros a month here which is a bit over the average salary I think). What's even cooler is if you have your hours cut non-voluntarily you can get allowance from the fund for the hours you're not working (OH is doing that right now)

Igneococcus · 08/06/2017 15:25

I know a lot of German students who live at home, often for a while after they finished their degree as well. It's not considered weird in Germany really. My nieces who are 29 and 25, still live at home (the younger one) or often come home at the weekends and it looks more like a flatting situation at times. They come and go as they like, their boyfriends stay over and get on well with my brother and his wife, it's considered pretty normal.
The support works the other way round as well of course. If my mother who is 84 in a few weeks and luckily very healthy and independent at the moment ever would need to go into care and her own money wouldn't be enough, us children would have to help out financially as well. If we wouldn't sort it out between us (and we will if it would come to that) the state/social services can take us to court.

Slimthistime · 08/06/2017 15:28

Natsku, is that voluntary?

It would have to be across a very narrow range of salary to feel okay. Also, if you can put that money aside by putting into that fund, you could put it aside for a rainy day....

Salzundessig · 08/06/2017 15:30

There is an upper limit. I think around 1700eur a month.

user1471520523 · 08/06/2017 15:32

Is it Maui?

hereyougoagain · 08/06/2017 16:41

Hummus,

LOL on school 57!

I have a cluster (all come from one family) of best friends who all went to that school and then their DCs did/do (those who still live in Moscow, they are spread over Europe now). It's nearly like (state) Eton of Moscow. However I vaguely remember from friends FB posts there was a big scandal there recently over some teacher/teachers? grooming children Shock over the years. So tell your DH to look it up, I think it rules the school out! ;)

Natsku · 08/06/2017 16:49

Natsku, is that voluntary?

Yeah its voluntary. If you don't pay into a Union fund then you get the normal State unemployment pay instead. I think tax gets reduced based on what you pay into these funds too.
I'd say its a lot more reassuring to pay into the fund than just put money aside for a rainy day, plus I suppose people view it as part of their Union dues (membership is high here)

liminality · 08/06/2017 17:15

As for us wanting to live like this - errrrr no.

I don't have children so it doesn't sound like this system would benefit me any more than the UK system. When everyone is off on parental leave, presumably everyone else will be working their arses off to pay tax for this? If they do it without rinsing the population then it's a miracle

THIS is exactly why the uk doesnt haven't nice things - unless it personally affects you, not willing to share for the greater good. You lot deserve TM.

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