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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that most people on Mumsnet would like to live like this?

384 replies

Uktopia · 08/06/2017 08:36

I live in a European country and have done for twenty years.

After one to three years' maternity leave (paid by the state, not the employer), which can be taken by either parent, nursery care is free from the age of one until the start of school.

University is free and all who graduate high school are admitted. Child benefit (non-means-tested) is paid until the child is 27 as long as they are in education.

I can always see the GP the same day. I can self refer to 8 different specialists per year and often get an appointment within a week or two and sometimes the same or next day (for more than 8, the GP can refer). Dentists (and for children, orthodontists) are included. If you have a chronic health condition, you can be prescribed a spa stay of three weeks to a specialised centre to help you manage your condition. Medical-grade breast pumps are prescribed to new mothers. There is no concept of a waiting list for operations or treatment. Sick pay is paid by the health system, as is carer's leave when your kids are sick. Disability benefits are permanent where the disability is unlikely to improve; no revaluation needed. IVF is free for four cycles per child and you can have as many children as you would have wanted had you not had fertility problems (guess what, most people stop at two).

Social housing is plentiful and no private landlords are involved in the system at all. For families with children with average incomes, the waiting lists are short. In the private property market, there is rent control and a lot of protection for tenants, so people can feel that a rented house is a home. Property speculation is disincentivised so house prices are fair. The state offers interest free loans to improve the basic amenities of your home, such as heating.

Unemployment insurance pays 80% of your last wage (to a cap of approx. 2.5% of the average income). For the first 7 months you are not obliged to take a job that pays less than your previous one or that is not in your field; after that you have to jump through a few hoops but nothing like the jobcentre. If you lose your eligibility for unemployment and have no income, you get emergency money of approx. £700 per month for as long as it takes. Despite it being very easy to stay on benefits, unemployment is low and recent years have seen periods of full employment.

Every four years, if your employer agrees, you can take a one year educational sabbatical anywhere in the world and the state pays 80% of your salary. I got my Oxford graduate degree for free. My job was protected until I went back.

Public transport is faster than driving as services are so frequent. A full annual all zones pass in the capital city costs less than £1 a day. An annual pass covering all public transport in the whole country, unlimited, is approx. £950. The rail system is state owned and tickets are based on a per kilometre price, rather than being pushed up by market forces.

Crime is low. Kids walk to school alone from a young age and women walk home alone at night at 3am.

When I earned exactly the average income (then £12,000 p.a.) I paid almost zero tax. Now I earn a lot more, so pay a lot of tax, but from my net income I can still comfortably save 50% as the cost of living is low even in the capital. The economy is fairly buoyant in general and most people would count as prosperous in the UK.

There's no nanny state or increased governmental control (in fact, the UK exerts much more control over its citizens). There's just a general lack of anxiety about the trials of life such as unemployment or disability.

It's no utopia, and the people are so used to some of these provisions that they take them totally for granted.

The UK could have this, and to be honest, I think we'd do it better and appreciate it more. Hearing people ridicule magical money trees while living in a real system like this is heartbreaking.

Voting Conservative today will take us further from a country like this than ever before.

OP posts:
ajandjjmum · 08/06/2017 11:12

And who pays for this wonderful life? Because I'm pretty sure that the rate of tax that would be needed to support it would be around 98% of income!

whoputthecatout · 08/06/2017 11:13

Wonder where OP has gone........

Coddiwomple · 08/06/2017 11:13

Why are so many in this country so excited about winning the race to the bottom?

Maybe posters disagree that voting as suggested by the OP will be the way to create that UKtopia of hers/his. If only that would be that simple...

listsandbudgets · 08/06/2017 11:14

Whats your address OP...

The Tree House
The Magic Money Tree
Unicorn Lane
Toy Town
Dream Land

Do you honestly believe this is what Labour will do for us.. or even close? More likely they will drag us back to 1970s complete with strikes

AndNowItIsSeven · 08/06/2017 11:16

Today 10:05 Brittbugs80

You're not a child at 27 though. You're not a child over the age of 18.

You do realise child benefit is paid up to age 20 in the UK.

Slimthistime · 08/06/2017 11:17

it's not sneering at someone who wants to do things differently

it's the tone of "why wouldn't you want all this, you must be weird if you don't".

explodingkittens · 08/06/2017 11:17

I agree it's not simple, and that some things the OP mentions might not be feasible (or even desirable).

It's just the smug, sneering attitude that gets me. I'm fed up with hearing about magic money trees and unicorns. It's childish and embarrassing.

But hey, we're gonna get the government we deserve tomorrow morning so I don't suppose it really matters what I think.

Goingtobeawesome · 08/06/2017 11:18

You'd have more credibility if you'd said where it was instead of dropping and going aka attention seeking.

lastcheesestraw · 08/06/2017 11:19

Wow there are so many weird people posting on this thread and berating the OP. It is like they are angry and offended that there might be better places to live, where society is better for more people.

Rather than aspiring to be like that, they say it can't exist - and with thse attitudes they will make sure it never exsts here. It is like they have been abused and/or brainwashed into not wanting anything better for themsleves or others.

Scary

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 08/06/2017 11:20

Well it's not Denmark (cost of living is high) and I don't think it's Sweden or Norway.

Definitely not Switzerland.

Where is this place? If it's real I might move.

Except it's not is it?

It's just spam.

chocolatine · 08/06/2017 11:20

dotandstripe Thu 08-Jun-17 10:09:38
Some of it is possible but some is BS. Admitting everyone to university? (Do their plumbers and taxi drivers have a PhD too?) We have this in France, those who are not up to scratch get kicked out at the end of the first year. In my opinion it's not a good system, but no reason to think it's BS.
Child benefit until 27? Other posters have already commented on this - not sure of the situation in France (mine are too little) but I think you get a tax break if your kids are studying.
No private landlords? My understanding was that OP meant that there were no private landlords involved in social housing - i.e. it was all provided by the state with no private landlords making a profit.
No waiting list for operations? True in France (or very minimal waits).
It's just about choices. The public services provided by the UK are very, very limited. Other countries with similar economies do much more. Other countries don't really understand why Brits put up with it. Honestly, I didn't think that this was news to anyone.

Igneococcus · 08/06/2017 11:22

"So if my narc mother lived in Germany and decided that her tiredness was a sure sign she has cancer, she can self refer to an oncologist, no questions asked?"
That's not quite how it works sparechange She could self-refer to, say, a dermatologist if she'd worried about a looking strange mole or a gynacologist if she'd think she had a lump in her breast and they would refer her to an oncologist if they think it necessary. There is a charge to be paid, called Praxisgebuehr that needs to be paid first time every quarter that you see a doctor, I don't know how much that is at the moment. It was 10 Deutschmark last time I used the German health system.

stratospheric · 08/06/2017 11:23

The OP doesn't suggest how to vote, just how not to vote. Just saying.

ravenmum · 08/06/2017 11:23

We are already a laughing stock in Europe
Tbh most Germans I know are not especially interested in the UK, so don't laugh about it any more than anyone in the UK would laugh about how people live in, say, the Czech Republic or Belgium.

I'm not sure how comparing the UK with an idealist version of an unnamed other country will encourage people to take Britain more seriously.

1ofthesedays · 08/06/2017 11:27

No waiting list for operations? True in France (or very minimal waits).

HAHAHA

it's would be funny if it wasn't very sad. A mother lost her baby when she gave birth on the motorway, because the nearest maternity had closed to save money and the next one was too far.

People waiting 6 months for urgent surgery which reach critical stage by the time they are finally seen.

Let's not mention the French Health Care system, it used to be great, it still is better than the UK NHS, but it's not going very well.

ravenmum · 08/06/2017 11:28

They got rid of the Praxisgebühr a while ago now, Igeneococcus.

Mommawoo · 08/06/2017 11:28

Well its obviously Greece.

Sycamorewindmills · 08/06/2017 11:29

Where is theOP? I've got my bags packed and my passport ready?

Slimthistime · 08/06/2017 11:30

a 27 year old who had a child would have their parent getting child benefit for them and they'd get child benefit for their child.

bizarre.

child benefit. OMD. Designed after the war to encourage more births. yet we still have it.

I have spent however many days of this election looking forward to voting for Corbyn, then last week I thought, don't vote, now I'm thinking shall I vote Conservative. argh. Argh. argh.

Cousinit · 08/06/2017 11:33

Explodingkittens, you have perfectly articulated my thoughts on this thread. I no longer live in the UK and there are many things I miss about my home country but the nastiness displayed on this thread is just so typical of many Brits and I truly don't understand it. It is as you say, embarrassing. OP, please come back and tell us where you live.

sticklebrix · 08/06/2017 11:33

Has to be Germany. High taxes but you get what you pay for in good public services. Parents are legally obliged to pay for their children. An acquaintance has a huge debt to repay the state for its support of his kids when he couldn't/wouldn't pay. If a close relative claims certain benefits you must contribute. Child benefit until 27 so that young adults have the opportunity to study.

Health care: yes, more personal responsibility required than in the UK. But I'm willing to bet that it's a better system than any likely post-NHS scenario.

stratospheric · 08/06/2017 11:34

Oh well, OP doesn't seem to be returning to say where it is, if anywhere, so I'm off out to enjoy all the benefits of the Magic Tree La-La Land I live in.

Toodle-oo!

hereyougoagain · 08/06/2017 11:35

Dandandandandandandan

Amsterdam/Holland is also flat! You don't need more than one gear on your bike :)

To be honest the referral for specialists in UK is bizarre and awful, it's probably the most complicated and inefficient system in the world.
But there is far more money in healthcare here than in, say, Russia, it's just spent inefficiently. Lots of things could be changed, not with more money, but with how it's spent.

Childcare as well - stop the tax credit system for parents, give them free nurseries! Lots of SAHMs of more than one child would love to work in a paid position if the childcare costs added up! and so on...

With hypochondriac patients - I don't know how it works in Russia(also sort of NHS, free), but I never heard of any particular abuse. Even more strange that in England you can buy only a handful of medication varieties over the counter, in Russia 90% of medication you can get without prescription, including 95% of antibiotics of any doses, but it doesn't create a problem of people killing themselves with tablets en mass ;). Also in cities many pharmacies will be open 24/7.

Here you get interrogated in a pharmacy over some nose drops Hmm

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/06/2017 11:36

Well its obviously Greece

I was thinking Italy Grin or Spain Grin

stratospheric · 08/06/2017 11:37

Slim Not unless they were living in the same household as their parent and in full-time education. Not here, anyway.

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