Can any Tory voters justify cuts to disability benefits?

[malificent7]

Or are any Tory voters actually disabled and in receipt of pip?
Just interested to find out.

Turkeys voting for Christmas 😔

In case anyone's interested, here is a piece on the difference between the national debt, and the national deficit.

It's worth pointing out that we are still running a seriously large deficit. That's not a problem in a recession, in fact it can 'prime the pump' and inject funds into the economy to get it moving again, rather as a new business can perfectly responsibly borrow from the bank. The problem comes when a country isn't in recession, and isn't making huge national investments in eg transport or housing or health - things that will reap social and economic benefits - and still run a deficit.

It's probably fair to point out that Labour managed to run a surplus for 4 of their years in government, and were balancing the books in the year before the global financial crisis melted down 38 of the world's leading economies. The Conservatives have never managed either since taking power 7 years ago. This despite Labour being apparently "terrible with the economy and thinking there was a money tree" and the Conservatives cutting all manner of essential services to the bone.

But then this place is so packed full of left wing propaganda that everyone is trying to outdo one another in the 'I vote against my own interests for a fairer society' stakes

Ffs I see 'turkeys voting for Christmas' has been wheeled out - it's not a MN political thread without it.

I'm voting for the party which I think will benefit me the best. What that party is is irrelevant but there is no point voting for a party which is going to negatively impact your life just so you can smugly claim that you have a wider view

Disabled Tory voter in receipt of pip signing in

So there we have it.

No one who's voting Tory wants to see the benefits cut - but they'll vote for them anyway even though they will cut them
Sadly that is the attitude of many as pointed out here - it doesn't affect us so although we don't agree we don't care enough to stop it.

That why we get such changes in government so often - the PM is always from the party that has screwed over the lesser numbers in society at the time of the election.

The conservatives haven't completely screwed over those on low income - yet. So nothing will change - yet:

I'm voting for the party which I think will benefit me the best. What that party is is irrelevant but there is no point voting for a party which is going to negatively impact your life just so you can smugly claim that you have a wider view

Genuinely shocked at that. So you know disabled people will die but you don't care?

I always wondered how people stood by and watched the holocaust without intervening, but I understand it now.

Everyone in society might end up worse off if the economy crashes and burns under Corbyn.

The economy is crashing and burning under May. We went from the 4th largest economy in the world to the 7th - that's last of the advanced economies. I genuinely do not understand where this myth of Conservative fiscal competence comes from because it is just not borne out by even a passing familiarity with the actual economic data.

I can't comment on the student loans because I don't have the figures, but in terms of nationalising the railways: we didn't sell off the loss-making elements of the infrastructure, just the profitable elements such as ticketing and the trains themselves. Assuming that it would bankrupt the country to buy and run a profitable form of transport seems a tad odd. It's not exactly setting fire to a bunch of banknotes, is it? They actually tried to privatise the London Underground and it was such a disaster it was quietly renationalised within a couple of years, but nobody ever mentions that.

If you want some reliable evidence of Labour financial mismanagement, then PFI was a shitty idea that is causing huge financial problems now and will do for years to come. That is absolutely a Labour responsibility; it may have been dreamed up under John Major in the depths of the early '90s recession, but it was enthusiastically expanded under Blair and it was effectively just a way to kick the infrastructure costs can down the road, while claiming it was done because the private sector is more efficient than the public - interesting claim, when you compare the costs of the NHS (repeatedly found to be the most efficient in the world) to the American healthcare system (privatised at every level, and universally found to be the most bloated, wasteful and inefficient) for example.

metspengler. I'm afraid IDS made things considerably worse than they needed to be.

It's arguably the case. It's tragic that any disturbance of disabled people's benefits has to happen at all, and anything that could be done to lessen the impact would be good. Quite contrary to what some people seem to think that Tories are all white British Christian racists with horns who burn the poor we probably hold the same sorts of things dear, but perhaps weigh them up differently, and accept different premises as true.

Of course, like many former Labour voters I have learnt to recognise criticisms and promises that are not substantive and do not address the long term problems. To put it bluntly, we're forced to decide between terrible choices - carefree spending today with taxes that will not pay for it and just living in denial about the privations we are storing up for our kids' future and public services when they grow up, or cuts today (sostress for public services and benefits claimants) and some attempt to mitigate the effects of the financial crises that are coming, and sometimes a comparative reluctance to turn on the money taps for growth as much as some might like. I choose option 2 because I don't think living in denial and "sweeties today" will be kinder in the long term - quite the opposite, the safety net is vital but VERY expensive and cutting something down is better than running it into the ground until it collapses.

I'm voting Tory and I don't agree with the cuts to disability benefits, however I am not going to vote for a party who I really really don't agree with because of one thing.

Maybe people think If they vote for the tories get the brexit and migrant issues sorted then they will have lots of extras for the genuinely needy in the uk ? That's what I'm getting from some of the comments I've read.
Ive also read the conservative manifesto and it had one paragraph on benefits. Labours had a couple of pages. Haven't checked lib dem yet.

Babyroobs why cant we have a discussion with bringing pensioners into it. I will though apologise on behalf of two pensioners here goes, I am SORRY my 86 year old father was able to work for 70 years without claiming benefits and only gave up work because he needed a hip operation and I am sorry that the country had by that time spent his 70 years worth of tax contributions and 50 odd years NI contributions so he had to rely on the hard working young to pay for his NHS care.

I am SORRY my pensioner DH was able to work for 45 years without claiming benefits, I am sorry he still feels fit and able to work so that his state pension/private pension/wages enable him to still pay tax to help support all those who through no fault of their own can't contribute.

Do you HONESTLY believe that if pensioners were means tested and the pension and universal pension benefits bill was lowered that any extra money saved would to be paid to the disabled instead, do you really think that for every tenner they take of a 'rich' pensioner a disabled person would get that tenner instead.

Personally I am against the cuts and services to the disabled including the cuts in services to disabled pensioners but I am really getting bored with these lets blame the pensioner posts

Hi, yes I claim PIP and my conservative MP helped me with the process. I think it was generally fair, at reassessment had to appeal as the DWP messed me around but my MP helped speed up the process. I think the companies doing the assessments and DWP are not very good at times. But generally happy with it overall and particularly impressed at the way my MP handled it. Quickly and very supportive. HTH.

Of course, like many former Labour voters I have learnt to recognise criticisms and promises that are not substantive and do not address the long term problems. To put it bluntly, we're forced to decide between terrible choices - carefree spending today with taxes that will not pay for it and just living in denial about the privations we are storing up for our kids' future and public services when they grow up, or cuts today (sostress for public services and benefits claimants) and some attempt to mitigate the effects of the financial crises that are coming, and sometimes a comparative reluctance to turn on the money taps for growth as much as some might like. I choose option 2 because I don't think living in denial and "sweeties today" will be kinder in the long term - quite the opposite, the safety net is vital but VERY expensive and cutting something down is better than running it into the ground until it collapses.

Okay: then why were Labour running a surplus for four of their years in power, and running at break-even when not in recession, while providing an infinitely better welfare net and considerably increased investment in the NHS, education, crime and justice, and the civil service, while the Conservatives have slashed budgets on all fronts and yet still run a deficit at a time when we aren't in recession? Seriously, how can you marry those claims up with the actual economic data?

Thanks sleeponeday I suppose it might be fairer to say who would be the least incompetent then iyswim. Sadly I think that's what it boils down to for many voters this time. I remember when the railways were nationalised and what a shambles it was. Also given the extent to which JC is in bed with the unions I'd be expecting a lot of rail strikes.
There are a lot of variables affecting peoples votes and for many people theres no clear cut 'winner'

There is no point voting for a party which is going to negatively impact your life just so you can smugly claim that you have a wider view

I do sometimes, vote against my own interests in the national interest. It isn't so I can feel smug, it just makes sense to look after the place you love and where your family/community live.

The UK is full of millions of people with needs, and it will probably be where most of our DCs live when they grow up. Many of us have a pretty big investment in it - to say nothing of the people whose families have already lived here for generations.

The tory councillors I spoke to said they still had to make difficult financial choices.

Shame, I thought all these Austerity measures for the last 7 years were working...

I suppose another factor is that Labour under JC would be a very different, and far further left beast than previous Labour governments. Not everyone's choice to oversee Brexit.

Totally agree with @crosswordsalad

I'll just leave this here.

I read the Tory manifesto and concentrated on the disability elements.

First they want to ensure every disabled and ill person is seen at the jobcentre before they are assessed as fit for work by a 'medical professional' to discuss what work they can do. Every disabled person is then assigned a work coach to reduce the numbers out of work.

Every person.

So it's irrelevant what your disability/illness is. Or even if you can get into your local jobcentre. And it'll retrospectively apply to everyone.

Second universal credit removes the disability working tax credit along with the majority of disability premiums. Removes as in abolished. As in no transition for those claiming that money right now. It's gone. Instant saving.

Employers are to get twelve months national insurance holiday for employing someone who is disabled.

In the parts where the disabled/ill are discussed repeatedly there are figures about those 'parked' long term on benefits who should be in work and how that is a major failing. Apparently getting all those disabled into work will impove their welfare and the economy, they expect claimants to be halved.

Personal note, not from manefesto -

My last ESA renewal letter mentioned three times how 'they' were assessing my ability to work in any job as it would improve my health and overall wellbeing and even referenced a journal article (article was total rubbish) and, how the overwhealming majority of disabled and ill people have an extremely small amount of time where they are genuinely unable to work .

I'm not voting for either Tory or labour.

YY Oldsu My DM only retired 18 months ago at the age of 79.

After 50 years of full time working in chicken factories.

DH is 67 and is being transferred from DLA to PIP.

Several people I know have actually benefited greatly fro the change to PIP from DLA, including a friend with severe MS and another friend with a son with severe autism and a physical disability-= they went to enhanced on both elements of PIP from lower levels of DLA.

However it is the people who lose out we tend to hear about, mainly as the mobility area has changed (50m with DLA to 20m with PIP I think). We tend not to hear so much about the people who have gained from it, more from those who now don;t qualify for the mobility and have to return cars, etc as they can walk more than 20m but less than 50.

Also, the mobility area for mental health hasn't changed, it was always like that from the start.

Because a lot of people claiming aren't genuine. And we can't afford it. The vetting process is completely wrong but 'depression' doesn't physically stop you working in the vast majority of cases, yet people claim for it.

I wasn't eligible for dla (fluctuating condition and mental health issues) but have been successful with PIP it's been a life saver for me

What Angel says.
Unless we have a strong economy, a good deal from Brexit (please cut the crap and stop saying 'hard'- a term invented by the media to create emotional responses) and fair taxation, there will be NO money for benefits of any kind. or the NHS. or schools, or anything you care to name.

My qs to Labour voters is how do you think that Labour can possibly fund half the ideas on their wish list when the OFS says they don't add up?

I get so fed up with JC saying their manifesto is ' costed' when every economic think tank out there says it's cloud cuckoo land.

The idea that Tories don't care is laughable.

I am a Tory and proud of it. I CARE but I know that the only way to care is to build up the economy in a robust, genuine way by supporting business and industry, not by creating public sector that 'take' from the economy, and do not create wealth.

We need wealth and low taxes (yes, the irony!) to fill the coffers to ensure benefits can be paid.