Can any Tory voters justify cuts to disability benefits?

[malificent7]

Or are any Tory voters actually disabled and in receipt of pip?
Just interested to find out.

Crossword, can I ask how you feel the tories are doing at the moment re terrorism and Islam radicalisation? As you said this is something you are concerned about

I don't want to derail this thread on to terrorism and Islamist radicalisation. I have posted on the current threads discussing this. Sorry, can't link at the mo but "aibu to ask for a summary on the Tory v Labour stance on terrorism" is one.

yes, I'm no fan of May or Rudd, but at least they are mainstream politicians, unlike Corbyn, McDonnell, McCluskey, Thornberry et al.

I just love to look at how propaganda has affected peoples choices.

The UKs financial situation is technically worse. UK Debt as a % of GDP is higher than its ever been. Since 2010 it has risen about 13% to around 83%. Labour, until the global financial crash, had kept it at the level they inherited from the Tories in 1997. The Tories are inept when it comes to the economy because they borrow more (thus adding to the deficit) and cut taxes. They are borrowing money to give it away. And people actually believe the Tories are better on the economy.

This lapping up of right wing propaganda affects other things. Like disability. Where do we want to go as a society when it comes to the disabled. Take mobility cars. These are hated by tories and the right wing press. Why should someone, anyone, get a car subsidised by the state? Its not a glorified pity payment. Its a tool, offered by the state to help the disabled person be as functional and live as well as they can in this society. Yet we now take them away. We know tell disabled people they are not worthwhile. That they are not to be part of society. We take them away from paralympians who, because they can push a wheelchair, dont deserve support. This, from a country that has a rail system so privatised and so anti-disabled that it prefers its leading disabled sport people to piss themselves rather than provide suitable toilets.

Tory propaganda makes disabled people look like scroungers and undeserving and Tory voters lap it up. One does wonder why Tories dont ask about off shore banking, deprivation of assets, complex tax structures. But then the Tory press is all owned off shore so the propaganda isnt mentioned all that.

I havent even mentioned Tory hatred of anything other than solid, British, Christian, preferably white people living here.

Sunseed please persuade your DH to do a mandatory reconsideration.

They are going through a spate of a blanket policy of refusing / reducing both esa and PIP. The cynic in me would say it's a pre-election thing.

Ceto - sorry but I just don't agree that numbers based on tax increases and no corporate growth will work. It's been proven time and time again - you can't spend your way out of a recession by grossly inflating the public sector.

Why would anyone think the Conservatives have a better chance of dealing with terrorism? Under them we've had a massive cut in the police force and three major attacks within three months. Theresa May has carried personal responsibility for that for 7 years and has not done anything meaningful about it, and her attempt to blame it on Human Rights laws is frankly laughable.

Apologies ArtisanJam

Would that still be the case if you or someone close to you become disabled tomorrow, CrossWord?

I'm not quite sure how you know this not to be the case already, but yes, it would, for the reasons I have explained above.

"UK Debt as a % of GDP is higher than its ever been. Since 2010 it has risen about 13% to around 83%"

Yes, because we've been running an enormous deficit, and that's what a deficit does. Bloody obviously.

very VERY few people (if any) are going to vote to abandon, or even try and hurt disabled people as their priority in life

No-one seriously thinks that is their priority, with a few twisted exceptions. But who wants to achieve that even as a side effect?

Partly yes, pixie. Not in cash terms so much - but in terms of public perception, it's a big deal. Everyone who shirks and claims benefits (and there are loads, my own cousin and his half brother to name just a bone idle example - one claims he can't work because of a bad back; the other just claims he can't find a job [not surprising when you're gaming and smoking weed until 4am!]) gives the benefits system a bad name.

I honestly think that makes it easier for the papers to bash benefits and therefore for the public to swallow cuts. If fewer people who were quite capable of working did so, there would be more cash and fewer assumptions.

metspengler. I'm afraid IDS made things considerably worse than they needed to be. He also instigated PiP rather than DLA, decreased the distance people were able to walk before adding mobility to their claim.
The Labour party didn't introduce sanctions. The Labour party didn't decrease ESA by thirty pounds a week.

metspengler, have a look at scottishdiem's post for a more accurate assessment of the Conservatives' financial strategies.

Tory propaganda makes disabled people look like scroungers and undeserving and Tory voters lap it up. One does wonder why Tories dont ask about off shore banking, deprivation of assets, complex tax structures. But then the Tory press is all owned off shore so the propaganda isnt mentioned all that.

I havent even mentioned Tory hatred of anything other than solid, British, Christian, preferably white people living here.

You see this white, British Christian reveals the assumptions of prejudice. You are full of anti-Tory propaganda that is quite frankly shit. Give your head a wobble you are talking about probably half of normal people in some parts of the UK, from all walks of life and of all sexes/genders/sexualities/creeds. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't meet many or the ones you do meet keep shtum around you after hearing your crackpot ideas about what a Tory is.

See also the horrendous mess the Conservatives have achieved with their so-called reforms of SEN provision. Cost, half a billion, result, chaos.

The Human Rights Law has very little to do with the terrorism problem right now.

If I remember correctly, the control orders brought in by Labour were done away with under the coalition, something to do with not having the resources etc etc. Unsuprisingly when you've cut thousands of police.

Whilst our police have been brilliant at responding to the recent terror attacks, it was pointed out to a journo that a percentage of them weren't even London police, they were brought in from outside the city. I'm concerned, god forbid, should a terror attack happen in one of the smaller cities, will they have enough police and resources to deal with it so robustly.

"We take them away from paralympians who, because they can push a wheelchair, dont deserve support"

This is the reason the transfer to PIP didnt start until 2013.

Not 2011 or 2012.

Because they didnt want anything hitting the papers or social media about it while London was hosting the Paralympics in 2012.

If it was really to help disabled people they would have started it earlier than 2013 At that point they had been back in power for 3 years. But they wanted to wait until after the Paralympics. The Paralympians themselves knew exactly what was happening Thats why they refused to wear the lanyards.

Propaganda works all ways. Frankly they are all full of BS and I too wish I could cherry pick from each.

I don't agree with all parts of any manifestos - but JC holding this country's purse strings is like letting my kids loose in a sweet shop with my bank card.

dan I get cross too. I was turned down for PIP. I worked from the minute I left school, I'm now a single parent on benefits. The reason I got turned down for PIP was because they said re my congenital neurological condition (amidst other issues), that it can't possibly affect me significantly because I didn't act thick enough and went to uni. Regardless of anyone's political views, decisions like that are ludicrous and downright bloody insulting. I do know of one person that got enhanced rates instantly a week after the assessment, purely because they'd deliberately not taken their medication before going. Most of us who are genuinely disabled, can't afford to not take our medications, I'm not saying that X wasn't entitled to PIP but it did irk me that X deliberately did this in order to get the highest outcome.

I still don't judge everyone else getting PIP by X though.

Metspengler

1. If the Tories where all about fiscal responsibility then why do they spend more than they bring in. Why do they, through tax cuts, aspire to bring in even less? Its one thing to work to bring debts levels under control. The Tories add to it. More and more money spent each year on debt repayment.

1. half of normal people in some parts of the UK - define normal?

1. The Tory government asked me to leave the country because I married the wrong person (black Zimbabwean). The Tory government actually sent a representative to a tribunal to advocate that I should leave the country I was born in and was a high rate taxpayer in and move to Zimbabwe. So my prejudices are not the result of propaganda but actual experience at the hands of the state. Elected Tories, enacting the desired policies of those who elected them. The propaganda against people not born in the UK comes from the Tories and the rightwing press who do not want people like my DP in the country.

So it's ok for someone disabled to vote in line with their own needs but not for a pensioner to do the same thing?

And someone worried about security and voting for that is also being selfish?

who borrows the most

I don't think it's difficult to understand that people prioritise what is immediately important to them in the short term, like taxes or defence or whatever

I find these black and white arguments quite baffling. Lots of Tory voters probably don't agree with this policy but may decide it to be the least worst option, rather than be ruled by the ultra left wing and all that might entail in terms of waste of public money and incompetent government.

Everyone in society might end up worse off if the economy crashes and burns under Corbyn. I can't imagine all Labour voters want to end student loans or renationalise the railways? people just vote for what they feel is least worst.

Of the current lot its a poor choice imo. Its nonsensical to think everyone who votes Tory or Labour agrees with all their policies.