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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - Understanding Islam

388 replies

peggypatch99 · 05/06/2017 09:58

Hello All, first post (lurker of years and years).

I watched the concert last night, very emotional and tears shed, but afterwards I have felt myself become so angry, and I am not sure at what exactly, the world? Terrorists? The Government?

So I wanted to educate myself better and understand more about Islam in the west, how we are perceived and what life is like for Muslim's - I see posts on facebook and sometimes I agree but without knowing the ins and outs, which led me to trying to understand the muslim way of life and separate muslims from Islamic radicals - some people seem to put these in the same category despite the fact the IRA did not represent the Irish Catholic community as a whole.

However I looked at a Muslim forum, and to be honest I was shocked and upset at how we in Britain are perceived.

The forum (I appreciate not all Muslims will think in this manner) seeks to demonstrate how as women we must be completely submissive, if we are not men are allowed to strike us. There are conversations about how we are unclean unless we have undergone FGM, how in Britain we need to be taught that there is only one god, how homosexuality is wrong and people should be punished.

I wondered if perhaps Muslim ladies would share their thoughts on the forum, as this is giving me a distressing understanding of the religion, when I thought that Islam was a peaceful religion - but striking wives, withholding sex - or punishing and sleeping with other women, seems to be encouraged.

(This is advise given to a husband)
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

I am probably coming across as not very educated on the matter, and that is true, but would be interested in what Mumsnet think of this forum and whether forums like this are perhaps clouding our judgement of the religion as a whole.

I am Christian and can't say I visit Christian forums as there are always those who take scripture and amend the meaning for their own aim.

Here is the forum:
www.ummah.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?158-Marriage

Thank you, please note I am not a troll, I am someone wanting to learn better and understand. I think part of the problem is that without being educated properly it leads to incorrect thoughts and feelings which are very raw post attacks.

OP posts:
Pannnn · 06/06/2017 13:16

I didn't realise the thread was only for Muslim women to talk about their flavour of Islam and brush over other Muslims' ones
Well that hasn;t happened as far as I can see. The thread as stated by the OP is supposed to be educative and by others statements it seems to have been.

If you don't wish to post then don't?

StatelessPrincess · 06/06/2017 13:26

DixieFlatline Who was the dissenting Muslim woman who's posts were brushed aside? The thread was started because the OP wanted to learn more about the views and lives of Muslim women, not because she wanted to start a fight, which has made a really nice change. There has been differing points of view expressed from Muslims and non Muslims, did you just want an argument?

peggypatch99 · 06/06/2017 13:28

What I wanted was to be educated, some posters have been very polite, however the odd view have been rather rude to Muslim women and that shouldn't be the case. I think the majority have been quite forthcoming in explaining their reasons for their beliefs.

What I have also seen however is people who are so brainwashed by the media they see the word Islam and think it is a bad word.

My OP was about learning, and quite frankly no religion is perfect. I am a Christian with gay friends, I wouldn't dream of stoning them, I appreciate that times change and that the main basis of my religion is to be understanding, appreciative, caring and look after others and from the ladies on this thread what I do see, is whether they are Muslim, wear a headscarf, are looked after by their families - they all promote love and peace.

OP posts:
SprinklesandIcecream · 06/06/2017 13:30

claiming fundamentalists are not true Muslims due to the justification they can find in the Quran

My point being that they aren't fundamentalists. They are highly selective and if they were true fundamentalists and followed ALL the teachings of the Qur'an, the certainly would not be extremists. Beyond that, it's just worthless. Do you see my point? They don't speak about the countless peaceful teachings because it contradicts their agenda. So yes, that makes their representation as true Muslim dubious.

Not for a minute do I deny there are HUGE problems within the Muslim community that needs tackling.

Also Ylvamoon I'm so sorry about your daughter's personal experience. I've led a few school tours in my local mosque and we have no such requirements. Again, no compulsion in religion for us especially when the headscarf is not even compulsory for kids! I'd happily show you and your daughter our local mosque if she'd like. :)

peggypatch99 · 06/06/2017 13:31

And to add, I pray, but I don't go to church. My husband and children are atheists - I love and respect their views. I would not try to change them.

This is why I love the fact my religion is a private matter, people can be cruel, if I posted about wanting to know more about Christianity, the same issues may have been raised (condemnation of gay people, Mary being a teenage mother)

Thank you to those who understand my post and have been really helpful and open in sharing their views.

OP posts:
StatelessPrincess · 06/06/2017 15:12

what I do see, is whether they are Muslim, wear a headscarf, are looked after by their families - they all promote love and peace I'm really glad that this has come across

peggypatch99 · 06/06/2017 15:45

What I want to say is my understanding is so very different from yesterday morning, thank you Stateless.

When I originally saw the forum (bearing in mind I put Muslim forum into Google) and was horrified - I came here for advice in the hope people would help me understand more, and what I got was Muslim ladies sharing their faith, telling me that those forums do exist but do not represent the majority of views.

I have learned terrorism is not Islam and yes I am one person, but I can now see and explain to my children, friends and family that just like any religion there are extremists (again going back to Westboro Church - do they really represent Christianity)!!

But before I posted I didn't have any idea of Islam, of life as a western Muslim - I came here ignorant and I leave learning a very good lesson - if you don't understand something - educate yourself before making judgement.

Thank you.

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 06/06/2017 17:21

Noeuf - it was me not stateless who posted about the hijab. I don't mean that men are either oppressive or gawpers - I was just explaining (and obviously didn't get my point across properly) that one aspect of the hijab is modesty , and some automatically believe women who wear it are forced. There may be some who are forced (personally don't know anyone but I won't say it's impossible to be forced) but many aren't. I wasn't forced, and I do consider myself 'precious', I don't want my beauty displayed (not just the hijab but I also don't wear fitted clothes in from of other men either) and my personal experience is that I've had less , actually , not less but NO male attention. That's not the only reason I wear hijab though, it's also representative of me being Muslim and it's my connection with Allah.

Apologies i haven't been following the thread as much today as my 11 week old has kept me busy! I've also got baby brain and probably made more of a mess of the above explanation....

Special thanks to stateless and sprinkles for explaining things beautifully, may Allah reward you x

Lulooo · 06/06/2017 17:23

There have been a few posts from Muslim women who have described their lifestyle and beliefs and I'd also like to add mine as it's slightly different.

I was born into a Muslim family and continue to practise Islam as an adult. My parents did not particularly pray much and practised a cultural interpretation of Islam. Over time though, I've learnt more about my religion and in my late teens I chose to not only wear a hijab, but to cover my face with a niqab too. Most of the time. This was my choice and not something imposed upon me by my parents or husband. I had an arranged (consensual!) marriage and my DH is a practising Muslim man who wears long Islamic dress and has a beard. We both teach at a madrasah and have devoted much of our lives to teaching Islam and helping Muslims in our community in other aspects of their lives.

My children also follow Islam and we pray 5 times a day. The younger ones don't; but the teenagers do. My DD also covers herself with a hijab. She has experimented with a niqab too and will decide in her own time if she wants to wear it or not. She's also experimented with more trying clothing and heavily made up looks and decided it's not for her.

We teach our children about the oneness of Allah and that Muhammad was the Messenger of Allah. I believe it with every fibre of my being and we try to live our life according to the values of Islam. We try to convey to our children that Islam is a multifaceted way of life and not just about praying 5 times a day, fasting in Ramadan and giving in charity. With devoutness to God comes good character and morals and to love for your brother/sister what you love for yourself, as per the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad. We try to instill good habits in our children and I feel the responsibility of practising these habits myself in order to fulfil my own submission to Allah and to be a good example to my children. This is a huge part of our family life.

We advocate generosity by encouraging them to raise money for charity and give their own pocket moment those in more need than themselves, to not refuse to help a fellow human being at times of need even if that means inconveneincing yourself at times; to be compassionate and kind and forgiving and forebearing even if you are wronged. To maintain good relationships with family, relatives, neighbours and the community at large. To not hurt one another and remove anything from the pathway that could harm another being. To be humble and not to be arrogant. These are some of the character traits we try to instil and what being a Muslim means to us. We're not perfect in applying them- but it makes a strong part of our upbringing.

We try to encourage a simple lifestyle and not be materialistic or extravagant. My husband likes to shop and has far too much knitwear and man-bags then anyone could justify but at the core, we try to be less concerned with having a nice house, car, belongings etc and try to be more focused on being content and building happiness on devotion to God and each other.

With regards to non-Muslims, our belief is that Allah has created everyone with rights and everyone should be treated fairly. Just as we expect non Muslims to be fair and civil to us, we should also accept their ways of life and cultures and show mutual respect. In fact, there is no them and us; we are one community and one creation of Allah. Any Muslim could die without belief and any disbeliever could die as a Muslim and be granted immediate and total forgiveness. No one is better than another except in regards to their conduct and piety. I have no problem with anyone who wants to be homosexual, show their skin, drink and be merry or whatnot. Just like we choose our way of life so do others and we are not in any position to judge any other human being. I would not ever ask a non Muslim who came to our madrasah to cover herself in any way. She dresses as she pleases. In fact, we have classes, groups and sessions for Muslim women and don't impose a dress code on them either. I have repeatedly told anyone who comes to wear whatever they like; hijab, no human, cleavage, tight clothes, open arms etc. Everything is fine. Islam and Islamic practice is not imposed on anyone. Each person will come to their own decision about how much of Islam they want to practise.

My husband and I have an equal partnership. Yes, we interpret it differently to some of you and I ask that you not immediately be judgemental. It is my choice and a choice that I feel is very fair and I am happy with. Our partnership is such that we both work, yet he is responsible for household expenditure and my money is my own, although I willingly contribute my share. He has no right over it although I have a right over his. On the other hand, Yes, he inherits twice what I inherit. But he has more expenditure too. We both are jointly responsible for the children's practical, educational, emotional and religious needs. In our family it translates as him doing the school runs and me looking after baby. He gets the DC up; I put them to bed. I help with school homework and he helps with madrasah homework. We sit together in the evening most nights and discuss Islam a little and discuss family and personal issues. We don't listen to music actively but my children have memorized the Qur'an and love listening to different methods of recitation by different recitors. They also listen to nasheeds (Muslim songs without music). My children are happy and Islam is not imposed on them. In fact, I have repeatedly let them know in no uncertain terms that there is nothing they could do that would make me love them less or alienate them from me. Nothing. My children are loved unconditionally whatever choices they make in life.

We don't drink or have sex outside of marriage. We don't go to pubs or clubs and my children are not interested in these things either. They're not abnormal though. They have teenage mood swings, like cars, football, cricket, animals, games, hanging out friends, dressing up, socialising etc. I like baking (unfortunately for my waistline), watching soaps and movies, spending far too much time on my allotment and having relatives over for dinner. We love to travel and experience new things and cultures. Basically, just because I dress differently and have very devout beliefs it doesn't mean I'm not normal.

My husband is not superior to me at all and not does he feel that or convey that. In fact, he believes and often tells me that I am better than him in so many ways. Sometimes, I feel he's saying that to elicit more bedroom favours ;) but most of the times I know he is genuine. He looks after and supports me and the children and I in turn, look after and support him. It's a relationship based on mutual love, respect and understanding and is not imbalanced at all. We do things a little differently but not unfairly.

I love my life here in the UK. I am happy at work, at home, in the community and have been able to devote much of my life to causes I love and feel strongly about. I've visited many other countries, including many Muslim countries and without a shadow of a doubt know that we in the UK have one of the best countries and systems of the world. I would struggle to live in many Muslim countries as unfortunately, the governments are not representative of true Islam as we see it.

Yes, my life in the UK and my way of life is different to many Brits but that doesn't make me any less British. I believe we are all different and our differences should be celebrated and tolerated. Just as I do not expect you to start praying, fasting, eating halal, give up alcohol, covering up etc, in the same way I do not want anyone else to deny me my right to pray, dress as I want, practice my religion as I want as long as I am not hurting anyone else. British values and a British way of life does not mean we all have to become clones of each other. But that we live compatibly with one another and live and let live.

I realise that I'm in a minority here and that many people will respond to me differently on other threads I'm a regular on just because I have outed mysellf as a hijab wearing, abayah wearing, niqab wearing Muslim but I'm not apologetic or embarrassed of my lifestyle so I'm not worried. I may have to change my username though.

SunEgg · 06/06/2017 17:26

@Luloo That is a wonderful post! Many of my Muslim friends have a very similar setup. Thanks for sharing 😊

purpleviolet1 · 06/06/2017 17:33

Lulooo what a beautiful summary xx

SouthWestmom · 06/06/2017 17:37

Hi purple

Thank you for coming back and clarifying, apologies for mixing you up, that's is clearer, thank you.

purpleviolet1 · 06/06/2017 17:46

productivemuslim.com

A really lovely website demonstrating how Islam is a way of life

peggypatch99 · 06/06/2017 17:50

@luloo what a fantastic post, thank you so much for sharing :)
It sounds as if you have a lovely family and life :)

OP posts:
AdalindSchade · 06/06/2017 18:26

luloo lovely post. Ramadan Kareem and I hope you and your family are having a peaceful and joyous month.

Chloe84 · 06/06/2017 18:40

Lovely post, Luloo Smile

SprinklesandIcecream · 06/06/2017 18:51

Luloo lovely post! Smile

Tucktalking · 06/06/2017 19:03

CS,
In answer to your question, I would like to sadly inform you that the words that are stated in the Koran have not come from God. Mohammed dictated them to someone who fled away.
Islam is an outdated religion where the followers do not realise that the instructions for fighting each other were based and worked for the olden days.
These days, both Christians and Sikhs believe in God the Almighty Allah. These innocent people do not deserve to be targetted by terrorists. As simple as that.
Womens lifestyles and the applause do not deal with the problem at hand at all. My original message which was deleted is the truth which we all want to ignore. Thanks.

lavenderhue · 06/06/2017 19:08

I cannot for the life of me agree that Islam is the religion of peace. Quite the opposite.

papayasareyum · 06/06/2017 19:08

there was a study not that long ago which showed quite a high percentage of British Muslims sympathising with Isis and over half thinking homosexuality is wrong. Muslim values don't always seem to tie in with British values. Integration isn't happening and/or doesn't work and of course you can't talk about it because that's racist
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

user1484615313 · 06/06/2017 19:20

Sharia law is islam. Any Muslim that disagrees is either lying to themselves or us.

lavenderhue · 06/06/2017 19:28

www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/research-islam-really-is-the-worlds-most-violent-religion

27.000 deadly terrorist attacks in the name of Islam since 2001. Definitely not the religion of peace.

Pannnn · 06/06/2017 19:29

ah user, thanks for that illumination. I know its much more complicated than that though.

StatelessPrincess · 06/06/2017 19:29

And you too purple thank you.
Luloo Such a lovely post Smile

Lulooo · 06/06/2017 20:32

lavender, contrary to what you think, Islam is a peaceful and balanced religion. For every radical there are millions of true Muslims who are just as disturbed by the violence as the rest of the world, if not more. For you to think it is all about violence and war and killing and murder means you actually have more in common with Isis than us real Muslims. You believe what they believe and have been taken in by their propaganda rather than studying Islam with an open mind and talking to decent, knowledgable and moderate Muslims.

user Sharia law is another scaremongering term that is branded about as a weapon to demonise Islamic faith. Yes, there are elements of shariah that are harsh but no sane Muslim is calling for shariah law to be implemented in the UK.
So in response to your comment, sorry but no; my practice of Islam does not include implementation of shariah law and I am neither lying to myself or to others here.

You seem very disillusioned with Islam and I'm sorry for that. You mention that you were raised a Muslim and I can only assume that there was something in your life that caused you to become so disillusioned with your beliefs or that you were exposed to a version of Islam that is quite different to the one I and many of the Muslims on this thread believe in. Your current belief is unclear as despite writing against Islam you call Islam 'our religion' which is confusing or deceptive. So what is it then? Are you still a Muslim? An ex-Muslim? If so, then why are you still alluding to Islam as your religion? Are you trying to portray yourself as being a critic on the same camp?

I don't know your story but I do wish there comes a time in your life that you can put the frustration and bitterness you feel about Islam behind you and understand that for the majority of us, there is no conflict in our religion and that if you can't understand our position then you can at least be gracious in accepting our commitment to our religion.