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Original poster

Men in changing rooms

495 replies

TheWernethWife · 04/06/2017 11:24

Went shopping yesterday, popped into a well known women's shop and there was a man in the changing room. When I asked why he was there the assistant looked at me like I had three heads and said he was probably helping his wife and most people wouldn't be bothered. Well I was bloody bothered.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 05/06/2017 10:08

Most shops have men's and women's changing rooms.

It's interesting that the people who appear to be getting worked up are the ones who are keen to erode women's rights and freedoms.

freeEnquiry · 05/06/2017 10:13

WillowWeeping

Not always. Perhaps more often than I should but I don't pretend to be perfect.

Sometimes there are genuine issues that don't have an easy answer. Other times there are non-issues that don't really deserve any debate whatsoever.

Bertrand

Do we have a Right to women only changing rooms? Besides which, it seems more like a restriction than a freedom. Perhaps we have different definitions.

BertrandRussell · 05/06/2017 10:16

"Do we have a Right to women only changing rooms?"

No. Some shops have them and some don't.

But where they exist, we have a right to expect them to be women only.

MrsDustyBusty · 05/06/2017 10:26

Besides which, it seems more like a restriction than a freedom. Perhaps we have different definitions.

Well yes. I want the freedom to change in a women only space. You want the freedom for men to go uninvited in your any place they choose. My freedom to privacy is set at nothing by you because you value the freedom of men to go where they've no reason to be above my my freedom to try on clothes in the designated area.

Morphene · 05/06/2017 10:59

mrsdusty but you already have the ability to change in perfect privacy in your own home.

Going out into the world demanding that public spaces become spaces that are yours alone or will only permit in people of certain types in them is a totally different thing.

Why do people think it is okay to demand public services make exlusionary spaces? Why would it not be okay to demand a white only space in a swimming pool?

I have never understood the complete lack of correspondence between racism and sexism. Why it is okay to say 'I don't want a man in the changing rooms because some men are criminals', but off the chart not okay to say 'I don't want black people in the changing rooms because some black people are criminals'.

Just to be clear I think 100% that both of these are off the chart not okay.

If you need the guarantee of privacy then try on clothes at home.

BertrandRussell · 05/06/2017 11:01

So if a set of changing rooms has "Women" written over the door, that has no meaning at all? Men should be able to come in too?

ShatnersWig · 05/06/2017 11:04

As a man, I have regularly found women going into mens' changing rooms to "help" their partners with their clothing choices because presumably the poor blokes aren't capable of deciding for themselves.

I think that is just as unacceptable and if changing rooms are defined by sex, then it applies both ways.

BertrandRussell · 05/06/2017 11:06

"have never understood the complete lack of correspondence between racism and sexism. Why it is okay to say 'I don't want a man in the changing rooms because some men are criminals',

But I am not saying that. I am saying that I don't want a man in the changing rooms because I live in a society by custom and practice men and women who do not know each other do some things, like taking their clothes off, in single sex environments.

BertrandRussell · 05/06/2017 11:06

"I think that is just as unacceptable and if changing rooms are defined by sex, then it applies both ways."

I absolutely agree.

WillowWeeping · 05/06/2017 11:16

Why it is okay to say 'I don't want a man in the changing rooms because some men are criminals', but off the chart not okay to say 'I don't want black people in the changing rooms because some black people are criminals'

Really?! You really have to ask this FFS!

MrsDustyBusty · 05/06/2017 11:19

I agree too. I've never gone into a men's changing room or toilet and I think it's dreadful to do that. Men have a right to privacy and dignity too. But I am nonplussed at the suggestion that, just because I demand this for women I'd deny it to men.

I also haven't mentioned criminality at all so I'm not sure why I'm being assigned that point of view.

expatinscotland · 05/06/2017 11:20

' Why it is okay to say 'I don't want a man in the changing rooms because some men are criminals', '

That's not what people are saying, they're saying they don't want men in changing rooms when such places are designated as female changing rooms because they don't want to change their clothes with men around.

User141665468 · 05/06/2017 11:22

Wow.

Would this be the same if it was a female stood in the gents changing room offering help to her husband, coming in and out with different sizes?

I always go to the changing rooms with my DP as he likes my opinion. In some stores I actually go into the cubicle if it is allowed.

When I'm trying things I like him to be there for assistance, if I need a bigger/smaller size, its easier for him to find it and saves a lot of time.

ShatnersWig · 05/06/2017 11:24

User Have you even read the thread?

BertrandRussell · 05/06/2017 11:26

Is there a name for the sort of argument that goes from Person A "I don't want a man i don't know to see me naked, even by accident through a gap in the curtains" to Person B "Why are you accusing all men of being rapists?" in one jump?

ExConstance · 05/06/2017 12:28

Going back pages and pages someone commented on me saying that women do not parade about half naked in the changing rooms. What I meant was that the parading that does go on is when we come out of the cubicles and walk up and down - there are usually mirrors at one end - to see if the new outfit suits us. Why are there naked people in the changing rooms? I've never taken all my clothes off to buy a new item of clothing, usually I look to wear a full complement of underwear, tights and - for ease of getting things on and off - a slip. If you are inside your cubicle, even with curtains, the heavy traffic of people in and out is not going to allow some pervert to look through the gap or under the curtain. If it is a male family member helping, or an older or disabled person having support from a male helper then I really can't see the objection. I suppose I am right in thinking that a trans person would be entitled to be there anyway.

BertrandRussell · 05/06/2017 12:44

"If it is a male family member helping, or an older or disabled person having support from a male helper then I really can't see the objection."

Apart from the fact that it is a woman's changing room. And as such there should not be men in it. As there should not be women in men's changing rooms.

FrancisCrawford · 05/06/2017 12:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 05/06/2017 12:53

And, really, the voyeurism and the pictures and so on are not the point.

It is a woman's space. With a sign on it saying "women". So it shouldn't have even the nicest, kindest, loveliest man in it.

Spikeyball · 05/06/2017 13:06

If female with male carer can't go in the female or male changing room, where does she go? There is rarely a separate accessible changing room.

Morphene · 05/06/2017 13:09

okay so the answer to my questions is that sexism is more culturally established than racism. I guess that makes sense given that we have had all of human history to embed sexism and only the last thousand years to work on racism.

Not sure it makes it unchallengeable though.

Our parents generation were brought up thinking homosexuality was morally wrong and of course illegal.

If we are asking them to act differently to their upbringing, then shouldn't we be willing to accept single sex changing is a bit last millenium?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/06/2017 13:13

'If you are inside your cubicle, even with curtains, the heavy traffic of people in and out is not going to allow some pervert to look through the gap or under the curtain.'

Exconstance, I wish that was true and I see how you would think it but when I got peeping tommed in a changing room there were lots of people about.
I suppose it's similar to the way men who grope do so on crowded public transport despite there being lots of people.

BertrandRussell · 05/06/2017 13:16

Why is is sexist to have separate men's and women's changing rooms?

FrancisCrawford · 05/06/2017 13:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Morphene · 05/06/2017 13:19

A totally separate issue, but why does anyone care if someone is looking at you?

How does someone seeing you affect you at all?

Does it affect you if you don't know it happened?

I have an equal (and very small) issue with strangers seeing me naked regardless of gender, so in the case of gappy curtains I tend to look away so I won't see anyone looking at me. This literally removes the problem as far as I can tell?

I always wonder about people telling others that their privacy has been invaded. I mean surely this is the purest case of 'what they don't know can't hurt them' actually being true.

If someone has been spying on me in the toilet the very last thing I want, is to find out it happened.