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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand how you can vote Tory after watching this

236 replies

Kimonolady · 02/06/2017 20:03

Not trying to be goady. Not trying to start a fight.
This video truly shocked me to the core and I actually found it hard to finish.
If you're planning on voting Conservative - has this video given you pause for thought? Is there a way you can explain your choice in light of it? Genuinely curious.
Video is at the top of the page (article worth reading too.)
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/30/disabled-readers-austerity-disability-cuts

OP posts:
LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 02/06/2017 20:44

Thank fuck MN isn't representative of real life.

Kimonolady · 02/06/2017 20:45

mummabearfoyrbabybears you said in your post that "everyone needs help should get it" - but this video seems to show that that's not happening right now under the Conservatives. Does that worry you at all?

OP posts:
newtlover · 02/06/2017 20:45

I'm finding it interesting that no one is actually engaging with the OP as requested, it seems a genuine and reasonable enough request to me, fine ignore it if you want but why come on here and accuse her of thinking all Tory voters are 'the spawn of satan' when she has clearly said she wants to understand their views on current policy and the story in the video.
It's almost like Tory voters don't want to hear anything uncomfortable about austerity politics.

ffauxlivia · 02/06/2017 20:45

If you have found yourself believing the other side are just evil off hand and make no effort understand how they could decently vote for their party, you have become bigoted and ignorant.

But the OP is making the effort to understand by asking the question 'why'? I don't see many actually trying to answer it yet.

Kimonolady · 02/06/2017 20:46

LiviaDrusillaAugusta in what way? Voting preferences, you mean?

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 02/06/2017 20:46

That socialism post was made about Obama back in 2012.

Clearly never happened!

www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/economics-professor-has-students-experiment-with-socialism.229303/

ffauxlivia · 02/06/2017 20:46

cross post newt

ffauxlivia · 02/06/2017 20:46

good find noble!

akkakk · 02/06/2017 20:47

Why would anyone vote Tory? Simple - because life is hugely multi-dimensional and every party will get many things wrong and many things right - so to pick one thing which is wrong and base your voting just on that one issue is a very one-dimensional approach to understanding politics and how it will effect us all...

And lets be honest - Corbyn has shown a lot of character traits which would be very concerning as a Prime Minister (yes he appears to be very true to hie beliefs and I can respect that - but he seems to ignore everyone else in choosing those beliefs and a Prime Minister is not a dictator, but has to bring together disparate factions, so this is not good).

So, I would hope that all (or at least most!) adults will look across a wide range of issues and take a non-emotive view on how the country should be run - how much or little compassion / wealth / freedom / restriction etc. we should aim to have as a country / people...

for me the big issue against Labour (despite being instinctively of a socialist persuasion in terms of compassion and supporting others) is that I can't stand their attitude of restricting / banning / controlling - they are all about bring people down to the lowest level to make us all equal - Tories are about allow all to rise to the top level to be equal - I know which I prefer...

Ravenblack · 02/06/2017 20:47

You know, the more I read these constant left wing propaganda bollocks posts, the more I hope Theresa may wins the election.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 02/06/2017 20:48

People aren't answering, at a guess, because regardless of the OP's intentions, some of the more hysterical posters are on here and it never ends well - accusing people of being uncaring cunts tends to wind people up Grin

MacarenaFerreiro · 02/06/2017 20:48

Yeah, because the Guardian doesn't have a left-wing agenda to push, does it???

Hardly an unbiased, independent source. Hmm

Kimonolady · 02/06/2017 20:48

ffauxlivia and newtlover - thank you, that's what I'm trying to get at!
I think it shows that there's such a lack of unity at the moment, with both Labour AND Tory voters having a real "us v them" mentality.
Labour voters piling on and accusing Conservatives of being ignorant or selfish or whatever on this thread really doesn't help.
I'm interested in why, and no-one is really saying why.

OP posts:
muckypup73 · 02/06/2017 20:48

The Tories care about nobody but themselves! have you not leanred that yet??? have you saw this disgusting peice? Election 2017: Tory disability minister endorses forced institutionalisation

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/election-2017-tory-disability-minister-endorses-forced-institutionalisation/

The minister for disabled people has failed to oppose the idea of forcing disabled people into institutions against their will.

Penny Mordaunt was asked what she would do to protect disabled people from “forced institutionalisation” and whether she opposed it, as part of a series of questions put to her by the campaigning website Disability United.

Fleur Perry, editor of Disability United, had asked the question in the wake of research she carried out earlier this year which showed how many NHS primary care organisations had quietly introduced policies that could see disabled people with complex healthcare needs shunted into residential or nursing homes against their wishes as a cost-saving measure.

But instead of defending disabled people’s right to live in their own homes, Mordaunt said: “The decision about whether to institutionalise somebody against their will is rightly a matter for medical professionals, and decisions should be made on the grounds of individual safety and health.”

She then referred to the failure to move people with learning difficulties out of assessment and treatment units, in the wake of the Winterbourne View scandal, and said there was a need for more care and support services for people who have been in such institutions, to “ensure that no one who should not be in an institutional setting is”.

But the disabled researcher and writer Dr Jenny Morris, who helped write the Labour government’s Improving the Life Chances of Disabled People white paper and led the review which developed its 2008 Independent Living Strategy, said Mordaunt was “dodging the issue”.

She said the minister had failed to address a problem that was “completely unacceptable in a modern society”, which was local authorities and NHS clinical commissioning groups forcing people into institutions because they refused to pay for the support those people need to continue living safely at home.

Morris, a member of the Independent Living Strategy Group – which is made up of disabled people and allies from a range of organisations – said Mordaunt appeared to be focusing only on the government’s Transforming Care programme.

The programme aims to make it easier for people with learning difficulties and autism who also have mental health conditions and challenging behaviour and are kept in assessment and treatment units to escape those institutional facilities and live independently in the community.

But even on that issue, Morris said, Mordaunt had ignored the rights of people who have capacity to make their own decisions.

She said Mordaunt was showing “a distinct lack of awareness” of the independent living challenges facing disabled people, including those affected by the closure of the Independent Living Fund, and of the right to independent living under the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

Another disabled campaigner said Mordaunt’s views were “very worrying” and appeared to ignore “50 years of social progress” and hand medical professionals a “mandate to decide who can and can’t live where they choose”.

She also pointed out that Mordaunt had made no mention of an individual’s decision-making capacity, or of “any consideration of a person’s wishes and views of where and how to live their life, or of their rights under the Human Rights Act.

“The idea that sole control of that decision-making process could or should be in the hands of medical professionals appears to go against the principles of independent living and seems reminiscent of the decades-outdated ‘medical model’ of disability.”

The Conservative party had failed to respond to a request for clarification of Mordaunt’s comments by noon today (Thursday).

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 02/06/2017 20:49

No - in attitudes to others who vote a different way.

My best friend and I have different political allegiances and we discuss politics but somehow we manage to avoid name calling

Kimonolady · 02/06/2017 20:49

MacarenaFerreiro As I asked earlier when someone mentioned the Guardian's bias, do you genuinely think this video is faked or exaggerated then? I understand every media source has its own bias, but I would find that extremely hard to believe.

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 02/06/2017 20:50

I seriously considered a 'spoiled vote' this time, I really did. If there would have been a protest party, I would have picked them. I don't want ANY of them in power because NONE of them, that I can see, have a clue what direction the UK is or should be heading in. Does anybody know? Confused

I don't want Tory because I want an NHS. I don't want Labour because they are profligate spendthrifts and that's no good. I don't want UKIP for obvious reasons. I might have liked Liberal if I had any confidence in them but I don't. We have Plaid Cymru here but I don't want them either... I want a party that's good for everybody. Why can't I have that?

Even on MN, there is no polarised viewpoint as to which party is best. None of them seem up to the job.

I didn't spoil my voting paper, I voted for Labour. I don't feel good about it though and I think the Suffragettes did so much for so bloody little in the end. It makes me mad. Angry

WHICH party is the RIGHT one then? I genuinely want to know.

noblegiraffe · 02/06/2017 20:50

constant left wing propaganda bollocks posts

You think any post about the effects of the cuts are bollocks?

newtlover · 02/06/2017 20:52

akkakk, Corbyn was being criticised by Paxman for the exact opposite of what you are saying- despite being personally opposed to nuclear weapons he has accepted that the view of his party is to renew Trident so therefore he is going along with that.

Kimonolady · 02/06/2017 20:52

So akkakk, would your response to the video be along the lines of that this is just one issue out of the many, many major issues at play in an election, and that looking at the bigger picture (overall view of the relationship between the individual and the state, and Corbyn's leadership skills in particular), you still feel that the Conservatives are a better choice? Is that right?

OP posts:
FreeNiki · 02/06/2017 20:52

Thing is JC hasn't had the opportunity to show what lies he has told so far.

I'll never forget Blair in 1997. Education education education in his manifesto and literally the first thing he did was impose tuition fees for university. Spent how much on bloody war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

You can't seriously believe everything the Labour party say? Confused

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 02/06/2017 20:52

Why can't we have proportional representation? They have that in Austria (and possibly elsewhere), voting for the issue, not a party.

Why not here?

MacarenaFerreiro · 02/06/2017 20:53

Haven't watched the video - I refuse to click on Guardian links in the same way as others refuse to click Daily Mail links.

Any newspaper which has an agenda to push is going to search high and low for a case or situation which furthers that interest the best. They aren't interested in the average, or the "normal". They want the exceptional to sell papers and create a stir.

(Not a Conservative voter either, but respect that other people have opinions different to mine and that doesn't make them stupid/evil)

noblegiraffe · 02/06/2017 20:54

Because it suits the main parties not to have proportional representation and when there was a referendum on the alternative vote system under the coalition, the country voted no.

FindoGask · 02/06/2017 20:54

StarUtopia, as others have said, that is some Facebook bullshit right there. Source please!