To think she's probably not in a minority with her views?

[LauraMoon]

Foolishly talked politics after many proseccos with my True Blue sister.

Now, she wouldn't air these views in public but she knows she can say it to me because I know and love her for the cunt she is.

She thinks that the only reason food bank usage has rocketed is because poor people are lazy and just want free food.

That poor people need to learn to manage their money better and not smoke, drink or have sky telly.

That everyone can afford to buy a house if they really want to, but people waste money.

That anyone can get a decent job if they really put their minds to it.

Unemployment benefits are unnecessary because people should just have insurance.

(My 'favourite') that natural selection would breed out poor and stupid people and that by having a welfare system we are fucking with the natural order of things...

The background to this is that she left school with zero GCSEs and has then worked her way up from an office junior to finance director for an international (massive, household name) company. She bought a house in her early twenties with a loan from our parents and has always been well off. She says this is because she has a good work ethic, and doesn't see anyway that it could all go wrong for her.

Conversely, I am on ESA and have never really had a career, I've been a LP on benefits and lived in a HA house. I'm married now and dh earns £££ and we own our home, but I know how tenuous that all is in reality. She left her dh a few years ago and has her dc 50/50 and doesn't understand why other lone parents would struggle.

Anyway, I feel like I've had an insight into how some other people think and I'm pretty sure her views aren't even all that uncommon.

Does anyone here want to admit to thinking like this? Or maybe you know someone who does?

It's all a bit depressing really.

Happytobehomely it's interesting that your dh thinks like that having had a difficult starts himself.

You say he was a teenage parent himself? Did he take sole care of that child? Or did that child live with their other parent?

Rainbowsandunicorn the benefits system was created for a reason no?

Look at history and the fate of the poor living in slums and poverty.

Everything wasn't rosy before the current benefits system.

Anyone with an attitude like this should be sent to do some volunteering in food banks/ citizens advice/ domestic abuse charities etc. People are there for a multitude if reasons.

When thinking about how others live, you should consider why this is the case. Yes there are a few people who play the system, however they are not in the majority. Where is the empathy? Sad times.

I save my empathy for those that need it. Those playing the system by not working, doing a few hours, having children they can't afford or simply won't support doesnt warrant sympathy. It's a choice they actively make. Whilst we allow them to claim tax payers money we are sending the message that's it's perfectly fine to opt out.

We live in a country where contraception is free, abortion is legal, free healthcare and plenty of work opportunities for those willing to work.

Rainbowsandunicorns you have no idea about what may have led people to their circumstances or life choices.

Why do you think you get to be judge and jury of who deserves empathy?

RiceKrispie I am the other parent. We've been together since we were 16.

We have had periods where we have relied on benefits or tax credits.

He just seems to conveniently forget that he has had any help and that I look after his children so it hasn't held him back. He is out of the house 12 hours a day, 6 days a week working and he thinks that anyone who can should so the same.

It's like he wants to disassociate with who he used to be. Voting conservative is a sign you've made it. Our families are working class. Postmen, tradesmen, cleaners and a nurse. They all vote Tory. The ones who don't, vote UKIP. To them, a vote for Labour is a vote for the scroungers and the immigrants. I am quite ashamed of them.

My MP is Ian Duncan Smith. These views are everywhere here.

And even if someone has knowingly made 'bad choices', in your opinion, what would you have done with them?

Put their children into care if they don't take a job that you believe they should?

Happytobehomely that's what I was going to ask! Who cares for the child while he worked his way up?

Seems ashame he's turned his back on a party that had the policy that helped give him a leg up so to speak.

RainbowsAndUnicorn

Have you always been this dim or did you take night classes?

Y'know what the fraud rate is for benefits? 0.7% - that's NOUGHT POINT SEVEN - or about £1Bn. Oh, and that figure includes the ones the DWP thinks are frauding the system, but they haven't caught them yet.

So, with respect, your assertion that "loads of people are gaming the system" is, to put it politely, absolute fucking horse shit.

Yeah, there are plenty of opportunities for work... if you live in the right area. My son was looking for a job over the summer and he had to have A-levels just to work stocking shelves in Tesco (he hasn't done his A-Levels yet).

For many people, working in a minimum wage job is going to leave them in poverty. When you factor in transport, rent etc, a minimum wage doesn't leave much for food or a life.

What we need is a ban on exploitative zero hours jobs and a rise in the minimum wage. Actually pay people at the bottom of the scale a wage they can live on. But no, you probably don't want a £10ph minimum wage do you?

The welfare state is fabulous. A few - A FEW - people abuse it. But that's not an excuse to punish everyone else because of it. Mind you, that's the typical Tory mindset.

Before the welfare state people lived in slums, dying of the cold, not eating or going to school. Now, thanks to Tory cuts, it's happening again. 2 years ago an ex-Soldier died of hunger and diabetic shock. He'd been sanctioned by the JobCentre because he missed an appointment - he was dyslexic. He couldn't afford the electricity to keep his insulin cold and died with no food in his stomach. He had £3.42 in his bank account and his body was found next to a pile of CVs.

Is that OK with you? Every time you want to overhaul the system to catch a minute amount of people, it's people like this who get caught up in the net and suffer.

DH also thinks poor people don't budget properly.

Playing the system has very little to do with fraud. The majority who use it to their advantage just work the magical sixteen hours, have one parent not working, claim IS as they don't want to work like other parents etc.

Plenty of people like zero hour contracts as they suit. Students, second earners, those that want a second job etc.

No system is fool proof but what' we have now is a shambles, tax credits helped created a generation of laziness and the option to opt out of paying for any children you chose to have at the expense of others who work many hours to do the right thing by their children and to self support. It used to be shameful to not put food on the table for your children but now it's seen as the norm to let others do it.

Your sister is unbelievable OP. Totally unbelievable.

So what would you suggest rainbowsandunicorn what would you do with people and their children?

Playing the system has very little to do with fraud. The majority who use it to their advantage just work the magical sixteen hours, have one parent not working, claim IS as they don't want to work like other parents etc.

IS as in Income support? Because if they're claiming that of course they're defrauding.

Working the magical sixteen hours isn't fraud either, nor is it playing the system. Annoying sometimes yes (I know of someone who's been on constant maternity leave the last few years and surprisingly the likes of HMRC haven't cottoned in she's not actually a 'single working parent'. The claiming she's a single parent is fraudulent. Nothing else.

Btw the 16 hour thing for a couple hasn't been the case for many years now.

Your friend is a FD of a major brand with no GCSE's .

I have had a rather posh man at a family social engagement happily tell me that we wouldn't need to pay out all this money in disability payments if parents would just 'let nature take its course, all you'd have to do was stop feeding them.'

He did look bemused when I threw my wine over him. Less so when he was thrown out by my brothers and Dh.

I have a disabled dd.

I think plenty of people secretly hold views like him.

We like to think something like the holocaust could never happen again, but there are still plenty of educated idiots out there, ready to hate anyone different.

It's fucking terrifying.

Btw the 16 hour thing for a couple hasn't been the case for many years now.

That's the whole point Rice it IS a thing for single working parents.

He did look bemused when I threw my wine over him. Less so when he was thrown out by my brothers and Dh.

He thoroughly deserved that. What an odious man. But YWBU to waste that wine!

I think Rau means couples where there's one partner working 16 hours, the other not working and they're claiming loads of top up benefits. The 16 hour thing was phased out for couples a while ago.

The tax credits system isn't/wasn't perfect but the fact is that housing costs are too high, wages are too low and childcare is expensive.

Which seems to leave the only solution being that only the well off should have children.

It's ok AwaywiththePixies27

I was extremely upset after that, but my dear family made sure I didn't go short of wine

So what would you suggest rainbowsandunicorn what would you do with people and their children?

Ditch all chid related benefits and WTC, put the money into education, social services and free childcare for households where all adults work over thirty hours. Force people to make responsible choices and to ensure any they make they can afford.

If they won't step up then the children will need intervention.

Awaywith, I've already said playing the system isn't fraud. Maybe you missed that.

So in other words you'd go back to the days when the undesirables had their children forcibly removed?

Because surely you realise that with what you're saying, the figures just don't add up.

I didn't miss it Rainbows I responded to it quite clearly here.

Working the magical sixteen hours isn't fraud either, nor is it playing the system

Very sad that people think this way. Good job we all dont.