Telling my Tory voting mother that she should pay for my daughter to go to university.

[sociallyacceptable]

My DD is very bright and could go to university if she doesn't arse about trying to be cool like I did. She is now 12.
My mum often talks about what she might do at university when she is older. I have been considering discouraging her from going because of the cost, we cannot afford to fund it ourselves unfortunately and she will have huge debt. It's kind of light hearted but I feel like telling my Tory voting mother that she should pay for her to go as she is not interested in voting to change this.

I would say a department with strong links to industry is always a good sign of a strong department though, particularly if it's relevant industry links
It is a geography department that have people in industry working with them.

Students do a six week placement in both years one and two either in the UK or abroad with industry links.

They also do a UK residential field trip in the first year and Costa Rica in the second year.

Some students do a full third year sandwich working year but they don't need to decide until end of first year.

Many of the past students have gone on to be employed with companies that they did placements with or students have found employment through people from the industry links.

From the moment they start the degree, it seems to me that everything is focussed on gaining employability skills through learning geography.

Put it this way, if I could have my time again, I would want to be doing a degree course like this.

WorldsacpeLove

In Aril 2014, Lenders were able to include Student Debt in Mortgage offers so you weren't wrong back then but the Council of Mortgage Lenders since then, guides that this must not affect how much you are offered or repay. If it does incorrectly, you can take it further.

Kitty - it affected my mortgage offer as did my post-graduate (but that wasn't through the student loan company).

@PersianCatLady I think I know where you are speaking about; it's a wonderful department (and faculty). One of my closest friends did their PhD there and they have done very well for themselves.

@KittyVonCatsington Thank you for the explanation. Good to know the correct state of it now - thanks.

kirinm Postgraduate loans are another kettle of fish entirely, it's very disingenuous to include them together. Under Plan 2, you'd have to be earning £62k a year to be paying back your student loan at a rate of £300 a month - leaving you with a monthly take-home pay (after tax and NI) of approx £3,350. I think most people could quite happily survive on that!

There are two different average starting salaries reported for graduates - one is £22k and one is £30k (depending on research methodology). On £22k you'd be paying back £7.50 a month, leaving a take-home of £1500. On £30k you'd be paying back £67.50 a month, leaving a take-home of £1900. It's affordable.

Actually just noticed that you're paying £500 pcm @kirinm - to pay that much on a normal undergraduate loan through the Student Loans Company - which is what this thread is about - you'd be on an annual salary of £90k, with a take-home of £4480.

Oh yeah missed that. Perhaps if you'd gone to university you wouldn't be struggling so much.

Lovely

I agree with you OP

Ds1 is off to uni in September and the debt is already worrying him

Her debt will only be a tiny proportion of her increased earning capacity providing she studies a real subject.

It will be a tax amounting to 9% on her income above £21000.

The subject she studies makes no odds.
If she does a subject leading to a very well-paid job and takes little maternity leave she could pay many times what she has borrowed. There's argument for waiting to see what a student is likely to do career-wise and if it seems likely to be well rewarded to pay the debt off on graduation .

BarberaOfseville - we should all pay because it is an investment for the future not for the individual - you can't predict today what will be useful tomorrow. Why should that investment be constrained to those whose parents can pay?
It's not unusual and was actually the norm amongst my peers for career to be unrelated to the degree subject - uni was much more about exposure to ideas and people than it was to the specific subject.

Ds1 is off to uni in September and the debt is already worrying him

So research it all fully with him and help him stop worrying. Why wouldn't you?

Peach - mind includes post-graduate loan repayments which I need to complete professional exams that aren't covered by the student loan company. I worked full time during my professional exam course (I was a single parent) whereas some of my peers didn't so they ended up borrowing substantially more than I did so god knows how much their monthly payments were.

Sorry for typos there!

Gee thanks kitty

That's incredibly helpful

I really wish that we had researched it fully and helped him stop worrying

Gosh why didnt we think of that

Thank goodness for you

I also would struggle to advise someone to study law as a solicitor. Do the conversion yes but actually studying law restrictions your options later (yes its a 'good degree' but people are always going to question why you did law and didn't become a lawyer) and actually becoming a solicitor is immensely competitive.

kitty

I might have been a teeny bit over sarcastic in my last post...apologies

kirinm Mm, I do get that, but that's not what the thread is about. No argument from me that loans for post-graduate courses are a significant investment and definitely DO count as "crippling debt" - but it's disingenuous to lump them in with undergraduate student debt which is what OP is talking about. We've been talking at completely cross-purposes!

Rufus What is it that your DS is worried about? I can see Kitty's point in that once you look into it and understand it fully, it becomes clear that undergraduate student loans aren't anything to worry about.

If you just take it on face value and say "Oh you'll come out of uni with £30k of debt" then that is of course worrying. But when you look deeper and say "Once you're earning over £21k you'll pay back your student loans at an affordable rate, you won't be required to make payments if your income drops below that threshold for any reason, and in 30 years the outstanding balance will be wiped no matter what" it becomes a lot less scary!

9% (today) of salary over 21k has a significant impact on what you can afford to pay - rent or mortgage - that 9% is effectively out of your disposable income - that where you have discretion to chose how to spend - its impact is far more than the headline 9%

Rufus, why is your child worrying? Does he understand the whole thing? No student likes the fees, in fact they hate it and think it's excessive, (which I agree with) but I don't know of any actively worrying and these are hugely bright kids. Normal worries are what uni will be like, the workload, complexity, living arrangements and then internships, placements, and ultimately graduate jobs/ training contracts.

Frankiestein401 It is only 9% of your income over £21k.

This link has a useful table of examples. www.studentloanrepayment.co.uk/portal/page?_pageid=93,6678784&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

If you're earning £25k p/a your monthly payment is £30. It doesn't have a "significant impact".

Of course I'd rather have the cash in my hand but it's a small price to pay for the benefits of attending university, including the job I currently have which I couldn't have got without a university degree. I am undoubtedly financially better off because I went to university.

(Of course that isn't necessarily true of everyone - there are lots of good, well-paid jobs you can do without going to university - but again, student debt shouldn't be a singular reason to stop someone going to university.)

Frankiestein - given that the average graduate earns £100's of thousand more over their lifetime than non-graduates, that 9% (and remember it's not 9% of £21k - it's 9% ABOVE £21k) is a very astute investment. Particularly when you factor in the fact that you can drop out of your job and live in a hippy commune age 30 and no-one will come chasing you for repayments.

Non-graduates aren't likely to have that 9% salary over £21k in the first place.

Who in their right mind says 'Oh I'll stay at my £20k per year job forever' and not take the £35k a year job because they'll have £1300 a year loan repayment taken away from them?

Seriously??

Are students (and their parents by the sounds of it) that thick that they think they won't 'pay' for their education? As it stands at the minute, you pay it back if/when you earn enough. If you don't pay at all, that money needs to be found somewhere and trust me, we will all be paying for it.

Anyway. Not everyone imo should go to university. Far too many use it as some kind of free for all, studying some crap degree that won't lead to a higher paid job anyway. We would all be much better encouraging our children to actually work their way up in a profession (unless it's say medicine, law, architecture etc)

A mate of mine did a "Dance' degree ffs. Why would you want to get yourself into £30k of debt for that?! She can't even dance!

This is the one issue I'm not aligned with the "left" on, for a number of reasons

1. Firstly, the debt doesn't count. Not where it matters. I have 30k of student debt. It gets taken out of my salary at a rate of £75 a month. If I don't pay it off in 25 years it gets written off. It doesn't show up on my credit history or affect me getting a mortgage. I literally forget it exists.

2. secondly, too many kids are going to university these days because vocational subjects and careers are seen as "lesser". Things like "television production" have now become degrees when before you would have learned on the job (which frankly would give you much better experience!).

3. If you are from a very low income family you are ok anyway as you will get maximum financial help. My sister is off to university in September and gets £7k maintenance, more than enough to live off.

So yeah. Don't really get it.

i wonder about all these very worried children - where did that start? I went to university when my parents were on benefits, I took out loans - not the large loans they have these days but I didn't worry about it as I expected I'd be able to pay it back.

I remember feeling deflated by spiraling house prices and not being able to get on the property ladder but I never worried about the debt. The research doesn't show any significant off-putting factor from kids from poorer backgrounds of the debt and the massive numbers going don't show this either.

The bottom line is the 50% that don't get close to going to university are failed much earlier in their education - if we're talking about free tuition as a way for increasing social mobility there are better ways to achieve this by spending earlier in people's lives.