Telling my Tory voting mother that she should pay for my daughter to go to university.

[sociallyacceptable]

My DD is very bright and could go to university if she doesn't arse about trying to be cool like I did. She is now 12.
My mum often talks about what she might do at university when she is older. I have been considering discouraging her from going because of the cost, we cannot afford to fund it ourselves unfortunately and she will have huge debt. It's kind of light hearted but I feel like telling my Tory voting mother that she should pay for her to go as she is not interested in voting to change this.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

And yes Labour are apparently going to abolish fees so that means you, me and everyone else will have to pay for your children's further education, with no guarantee that they will actually do anything with it

[SuperBeagle]

Where I live, university has not been "free" since the 70s and 95% of people have debt when they leave. It's the norm. It doesn't discourage anyone from going, nor should it. Debts are a part of life. No time like the present (uni, 18+) to realise that.

It's not your mother's job to pay for your child to go to uni. Your DD either needs to accept that she'll have a debt when she leaves, or you'll have to find a way to fund the fees. The way your mother votes is utterly irrelevant.

[mynotsoperfectlife]

OP, it's true that many parents support children when at university but quite honestly many can't. This was true in the days of grants as well.

[ChardonnaysPrettySister]

So your mother shouldn't be telling your daughter she's clever, or else she should vote Labour?

[hackmum]

Tuition fees as they currently stand aren't necessarily that bad - graduates get a long time to pay them off. The risk is, though, that the £9k cap will come off under the next (Tory) government and unis will put them up a lot more. At the moment, they are allowed to put them up a little over £9k if they do well under the Teaching Excellence Framework, but the signs are they will go much higher. Universities are expensive to fund, and Brexit means losing quite a lot of European students.

You may have to contribute to your DD's living expenses, but she could also get part-time work to see her through. She may also be entitled to a maintenance grant.

Obviously Labour under Corbyn's leadership intend to abolish tuition fees altogether, so the fact that Labour introduced them originally is irrelevant to the OP's point.

You can point all this out to your DM, but I dare say she has her own reasons for voting Tory.

[herethereandeverywhere]

It is true that the daughter won't need to repay until she has a well-paid job, but the debt will still be there, all £30-40k of it (min). So how is she supposed to save for buying her own home, for holidays, for having a family when she starts at minus forty thousand?!!

From person experience I left university with c.£20k of debt (this was before tuition fees but my folks could not afford to fund my living costs so I borrowed via student loans, bank and credit cards). It took me until I was 30 to pay off. I relied on my husband to pay100% of the deposit on our first home (MC family, fully funded at Uni, started with £0 debt). I also chose a career that made me enough money to climb out of the debt and move on. How will the younger generation do this?

[SuperBeagle]

So how is she supposed to save for buying her own home, for holidays, for having a family when she starts at minus forty thousand?!!

People manage it here in Australia...

[LittleBooInABox]

Ffs, I am currently at uni and pay my own damn tuition fees. That's life. All your doing is giving your daughter an excuse. 'I can't do it cause I can't afford it'

It was labour who took away free education. Not Tories

[titchy]

but it is her who goes on about how clever she is and what she will do at university!

Good. Pity you're not being as encouraging.

Find out the facts. If you're a low income household you won't be expected to contribute.

Even if you earn mega bucks she'll still get a maintenance loan and a full fee loan.

[herethereandeverywhere]

PS: Getting part time work really does depend where you live and where you study. I was in a Northern University town of over 20,00 students - there really weren't enough jobs to go round. Ditto going home to Merseyside where the adult workforce was struggling for jobs, never mind students. And all employers wanting people for the foreseeable and not just the holidays/term time (depending on location). There's always zero hour contracts during the holidays I suppose...

[tinypop4]

Mumsnet is not representative of the the entire country. My parents could not afford to subsidise my university education. I went anyway, I took out loans and I worked part time.
It's not ideal but it is the same round the world (USA, oz) and people manage. I actually know a lot of people whose parents didn't contribute much if anything because they couldn't afford to.

[sociallyacceptable]

My DD could leave school at 18 and she could get a job, deposit for a house etc. Going to university and studying will leave her without the option of owning her own home until we die as I see it. I do want to encourage her but honestly hate the thought of her carrying £30000-£40000 debt when she's just started. My brothers child just finished university, studied History and has £30000 debt, what job can they get now??

[herethereandeverywhere]

If you're a low income household you won't be expected to contribute

Do tell us more titchy. I thought everyone ended up with £9k per year debt...

[acquiescence]

There is a huuuuge difference between the fees that were introduced initially and the figures that students pay now. 'Labour started it' is a poor argument. I was lucky enough to pay the lower fee level and have debt of around £16000 which seems totally reasonable to me for a 4 year degree. I pay minimal amounts off as I work part time. The levels that the Tories currently promote are so much more than this.

[SuperBeagle]

what job can they get now??

They'd be in this predicament debt or no debt.

[herethereandeverywhere]

titchY I see, you're talking about parental contribution. Unfortunately the parent is stressing about the large amount of debt her child will end up with, not access to borrowing the funds...

[titchy]

Jesus are people incapable of googling somehow.

Fees are paid from a loan. Maintenance is paid from a loan, from £4K to £8.5k a year depending on household income.

Student pays back loan once they're earning £21k+

Parents don't pay loan repayments.

[KittyVonCatsington]

Technically, like the NHS, University is 'free at the point of service'. And before I get taken out of context, the NHS is not 'free' as it comes out of tax. The same as Tuition Fees. Your daughter will pay nothing towards her Tuition Fees until she is earning above a certain amount and that will come out with all her other tax, NI, pension etc. and if she never earns that amount or moves abroad, won't pay it back at all!

I was the first year to pay Tuition Fees (thanks Labour!) and at 36, still paying £30 per month towards it. Ho hum!

Besides, there are many more options now including A Level entry schemes into huge blue chip companies that pay you to do your degree for you. It isn't just Uni, Job or vocational apprenticeships anymore.

And I honestly don't understand what is so bad about your DD's grandmother saying how clever she is and uni material!

[OTheHugeManatee]

The current setup is far more progressive than 'free' tuition fees.

Under the current system, if someone goes to university - thereby upping their earning potential - and earns enough to pay them back, they do so slowly over a number of years. If they don't end up earning enough to pay them back, they don't.

Effectively tuition fees function as a means-tested tax on having a degree.

In contrast, providing free university tuition means students' degrees are subsidised by all taxpayers in the country including those taxpayers without the academic ability to benefit from university education themselves. Effectively it takes money from the entire tax base, including the poor / undereducated, to improve the life chances of people who already have more academic ability and hence better chances. How is that fair?

You only have to look at what's happening in Scotland to see the reality of 'free' university tuition: 'free' places are sharply restricted while universities shill like mad for paying students from England and overseas so as to make up the shortfall in funding.

It might seem counterintuitive but your Tory voting mother is supporting an education policy that delivers a far more socially just outcome than taking tax money from bus drivers, road sweepers and plumbers to fund someone else getting an earnings boost from university and graduating debt-free.

[Redpony1]

I'm a firm believer that HE should not be 'free' anyway - and i work at a Uni!!
My parents didn't help my brothers through uni, they worked zero hour contracts to pay their way

[neonrainbow]

I think tuition fees are a good thing. Why shouldnt adults pay for their own further education? I firmly believe everyone should be encouraged to work for a few years before going to university. A relative went back as a mature student and said it was like being in a pre school the way the 18-20 year olds were behaving. Constant partying and nobody taking it very seriously.

[Madbengalmum]

No, just leave it to the rest of us to fund it!
OP someone will have to pay, ironic isnt it that labour started these charges!

[BandeauSally]

Well neither me or my DP will earn much more in 8 years unless we retrain, can't afford to do this either. My DP works 70+ hours running his business so please don't say we are not trying.

So start saving now. You have 8 years to put something away towards her living costs. If you can't save anything with your partner working 70 hours a week then his business is inefficient and unless he is likely to make some sort of break through into much bigger money soon then he needs to reassess and perhaps think about employed work.

[titchy]

OP says we cannot afford to fund it.

OP doesn't have to fund it but hasn't bothered fact finding it appears.

[herethereandeverywhere]

Jesus are people incapable of reading and comprehending the concerns of the OP

It's the daughter's debt from the loans she's worried about, not whether funding via loans can be accessed.