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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel the faint stirrings of hope of a Labour victory?

492 replies

KentMum2008 · 29/05/2017 22:33

Just that really? We all thought it was a done deal, T May was going to win by a landslide and we'd be crippled by another 5 years of Tory rule.

Fast forward a few weeks and a Labour victory doesn't seem like such a long shot.

AIBU to feel optimistic that Labour genuinely have a fighting chance? At the very, very least it might result in no overall majority, but the ultimate dream of a Labour govt, run by a true socialist isn't as impossible as previously though.

JC4PM!

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RainbowsAndUnicorn · 30/05/2017 08:17

*choolcuts.org.uk/#!/

This site allows you to enter your local schools postcode and then brings up a general picture of how their finances will look after 5 years of Tory rule. It is terrifying. The secondary school is like my daughter to go to will be down £459,557 by 2022. How can anyone condone this?*

That link shows our local schools will lose thousands however very suspicious of it as our local press has been full of news that our area is not facing any cuts to the schools budgets in the new funding formula and has been confirmed by the relevant authorities.

GetAHaircutCarl · 30/05/2017 08:19

Both Corbyn and May are fools and Kamakaze fools at that, both seem equally determined to reduce their chances of winning.

ComputerUserNotTrained · 30/05/2017 08:19

I cannot forgive JC for his anti-Eu stance.

nakedscientist · 30/05/2017 08:19

I really liked the Labour manifesto, many did. Was the "leak" deliberate? It certainly worked in their favour.

I think May has been arrogant, condescending and hectoring. Very much the old style "nasty party".

If Brexit can happen (no one thought it would), the dreadful Trump could get in (totally shocked everyone) , then yes, we could have a Labour Government. I DO feel a frisson of hope. Thus, YANBU.

KentMum2008 · 30/05/2017 08:20

If you read a bit about the formula they use to work out those figures, it makes more sense. Whilst your school may not lose any actual cash funding, in real terms once inflation/wage rises etc are taken into account, that figure shows how the school will be affected. The money they are given may not be decreasing, but the costs they have to pay will be significantly increasing so they will lose out in real terms.

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KentMum2008 · 30/05/2017 08:22

oliversmums the Tories left a similar note for an incoming Labour govt, so does that mean the Tories left the country in a mess too? By your logic, it does, but you've also said it's only Labour who are fiscally incompetent.

To feel the faint stirrings of hope of a Labour victory?
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GetAHaircutCarl · 30/05/2017 08:23

I don't think Brexit or Trump points to a likely Labour win.

JacquesHammer · 30/05/2017 08:23

I'm really interested if anyone is planning to vote Labour and also send their DC to independent school

I am. The VAT on fees would hurt me a lot. And probably make the difference between expanding and taking on an employee vs continuing to be a consultant working from home.

However I think Labour are by far the better option tactically. With my heart I want Lib Dem and the chance of a reversal of Brexit.

phoebemac · 30/05/2017 08:24

"Not only is he a complete cockwomble but he's evidently also a spineless bastard within his own negotiations."

Frilly I don't agree with this. A manifesto should be based on a consensus view of the party, not one person's views. If the manifesto had been based only on Corbyn's views, no doubt he would have been called a dictator!

Etymology23 · 30/05/2017 08:27

My grandma intends not to vote Tory for the first time in a very long while: she was gonna be voting blue until the ivory trading reinstatement manifesto proposal.

Equally though we both live in landslide blue areas so our votes will make not a jot of difference.

AllThePrettySeahorses · 30/05/2017 08:27

It's all very well saying vote for the manifesto but you get Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell with it - not to mention Milne, McCluskey and Lansman. The manifesto isn't in a vacuum; it depends on people being competent and interested in implementing it.

It is also rather silly to say the Tories were negotiating with the IRA so Corbyn's fine. First, you can not compare a government, any government, to a backbencher. Second, Corbyn's widely documented activities were just in support of the IRA no matter how much he tries to lie about them - and perhaps he should have at least tried to get his story straight with Abbott. Third, you would not believe the amount of trouble he was in - I'm surprised he was allowed to keep his seat.

It isn't just the IRA though. Corbyn accepted £5000 from Hamas funder Ibrahim Hamami for his 2015 leadership campaign, which only came to light when a fortunate typo in his name had to be corrected in the Register of Interests. There's his Press TV work, his screeching for army cuts, his trips to various destinations in the ME, such as to see Assad, paid for by anti-semitic groups such as the PRC in the company of disgraced anti-semites like Tonge. What about his passionate defence of Salah or friendships with Eisen, Seizer etc? These were not 'hold your nose' pragmatic political alliances. I know people like to say the IRA stuff is from so long ago that who could give a toss (although it's worth remembering that Johnathan Ball, out to buy a mothers' day card, would only be 27) but this is in the past 7 or 8 years and isn't the half of it.

Even his immediate blame of UK foreign policy for the Manchester bombing is despicable and shows his mindset. Because of UK policy, the bomber's parents were able to flee Libya and live here in safety; the bomber was able to go to university etc. Corbyn is anti-interventionist, as shown by his votes against action in Kosovo and Sierra Leone. And Syria of course. You can't turn your back on the world. You can't ignore atrocities. Even the myths to support him on social media are pathetic, eg ISIS did not form after Hussein had been toppled but in 1999, or the IRA was not in response to British brutalities but to Unionist activists.

Frankly, there is no way Corbyn can be seen as a representative of the ethical left. More like Soviet, with his supporters baying for the Gulag for dissenters.

Nousernameforme · 30/05/2017 08:30

I can't see why everyone on here is so certain of a Tory win. It's like mumsnet lives in a bubble away from the rest of social media.

I do not know a single person IRL or online that would touch the Torys with a shitty stick.

My friends are teachers and T.As, some work for the nhs as nurses or are stuck on zero hours or have kids in schools. They are all voting labour and from comments on their posts and from talking to them their friends are all voting labour.
Grown up children of friends and their friends are wanting to vote Labour.

While I appreciate that none of my friends are in the £80,000+ a year that will be turned off with Labours higher rate of tax neither is the majority of the country.

You don't get points for already being in power so I don't see why you can be so sure of a Tory win.

People were so sure about Brexit and look how that ended up.

GetAHaircutCarl · 30/05/2017 08:31

nouser that was said ad infinum last time. Who is voting Tory, no one I know etc etc Yet Cameron won.

Dawndonnaagain · 30/05/2017 08:32

Ackvavit there are parents who for various reasons had the choices they made (possibly similar to yours) removed without choice. Domestic violence, illness, redundancies.

GraceGrape · 30/05/2017 08:35

The school cuts website mentioned above has been fact-checked by Radio 4's "More or less" programme, which usually does a thorough job. The Institute for Fiscal studies has also released a report which says that under Conservative policy, school budgets will be reduced by at least 7%.

I questioned my Tory MP about this at our local hustlngs. She tried to make out that the campaign about school cuts was an anti-Tory smear campaign. She didn't have much to say when I brought up the IFS report.

Dawndonnaagain · 30/05/2017 08:36

Frankly, there is no way Corbyn can be seen as a representative of the ethical left. More like Soviet, with his supporters baying for the Gulag for dissenters.
You do know it's 2017, not 1967 don't you?

Beachcomber · 30/05/2017 08:38

Oliversmumsarmy, Gordon Brown sold gold cheaply in order to bail out Amercican banks and avoid a global banking meltdown.

When Brown decided to dispose of almost 400 tonnes of gold between 1999 and 2002, he did two distinctly odd things.

First, he broke with convention and announced the sale well in advance, giving the market notice that it was shortly to be flooded and forcing down the spot price. This was apparently done in the interests of “open government”, but had the effect of sending the spot price of gold to a 20-year low, as implied by basic supply and demand theory.

Second, the Treasury elected to sell its gold via auction. Again, this broke with the standard model. The price of gold was usually determined at a morning and afternoon “fix” between representatives of big banks whose network of smaller bank clients and private orders allowed them to determine the exact price at which demand met with supply.

The auction system again frequently achieved a lower price than the equivalent fix price. The first auction saw an auction price of $10c less per ounce than was achieved at the morning fix. It also acted to depress the price of the afternoon fix which fell by nearly $4.

It seemed almost as if the Treasury was trying to achieve the lowest price possible for the public’s gold. It was.

One of the most popular trading plays of the late 1990s was the carry trade, particularly the gold carry trade.

In this a bank would borrow gold from another financial institution for a set period, and pay a token sum relative to the overall value of that gold for the privilege.

Once control of the gold had been passed over, the bank would then immediately sell it for its full market value. The proceeds would be invested in an alternative product which was predicted to generate a better return over the period than gold which was enduring a spell of relative price stability, even decline.

At the end of the allotted period, the bank would sell its investment and use the proceeds to buy back the amount of gold it had originally borrowed. This gold would be returned to the lender. The borrowing bank would trouser the difference between the two prices.

This plan worked brilliantly when gold fell and the other asset – for the bank at the heart of this case, yen-backed securities – rose. When the prices moved the other way, the banks were in trouble.

This is what had happened on an enormous scale by early 1999. One globally significant US bank in particular is understood to have been heavily short on two tonnes of gold, enough to call into question its solvency if redemption occurred at the prevailing price.

Goldman Sachs, which is not understood to have been significantly short on gold itself, is rumoured to have approached the Treasury to explain the situation through its then head of commodities Gavyn Davies, later chairman of the BBC and married to Sue Nye who ran Brown’s private office.

Faced with the prospect of a global collapse in the banking system, the Chancellor took the decision to bail out the banks by dumping Britain’s gold, forcing the price down and allowing the banks to buy back gold at a profit, thus meeting their borrowing obligations.

I spoke with Peter Hambro, chairman of Petroplavosk and a leading figure in the London gold market, late last year and asked him about the rumours above.

“I think that Mr Brown found himself in a terrible position,” he said.

“He was facing a problem that was a world scale problem where a number of financial institutions had become voluntarily short of gold to the extent that it was threatening the stability of the financial system and it was obvious that something had to be done.”

Responsibility is evaded by all bar those on whose shoulders it ought to rest. The gold panic of 1999 was expensively paid for by the British public.

Ackvavit · 30/05/2017 08:42

I understand sometimes people end up in a place through no fault of their own, what I object to is the massive elephant in the room of that group of people who actually choose benefits as a source of income and have no intention of getting a job to get off benefits- effectively they benefit yet again if labour decide to put VAT on school fees to ensure all children get decent food in school. We seem to think it is perfectly acceptable that people do not have to be responsible for their own children to the extent on top of a free education (if you are claiming benefits you are not contributing to the circa £5k per child) labour want to give them less responsibility and more help. I'm sorry, you can cut it any way you like but it is laughable to say everyone has fallen on hard times. Reality is we seem to accept that a huge group of people - who had opportunities through the state school system, think it is acceptable not to work yet will without any irony vote for the party that has proud links to the working class. I'm from a very working class background but worked very hard to pay school fees and think it is wrong, my personal opinion, to expect me to pay more to people who cannot be bothered to work. I fully appreciate many people fall on hard times and I respect the fact that as a country we are civilised enough to not expect them to be homeless or unable to provide, but the benefits system is making it far too easy to opt out of hard work and it pays. For many to never try. So instead of trying to change them Labour propose to help them even more by taxing people who have worked and try to better themselves and their families.

Beachcomber · 30/05/2017 08:43

I'm looking for the link for that citation - it was by Thomas Pascoe and published by the Telegraph. I have a download of it but will try to find a link.

AllThePrettySeahorses · 30/05/2017 08:44

DawnDonna Tell that to his supporters. Purges. Deselection. Takeovers. Pile-ons if you don't believe their fake news. Misinformation. All over social media. It isn't me creating that atmosphere you know.

KentMum2008 · 30/05/2017 08:44

Alltheprettyseahorses Boris Johnson made similar comments about UK foreign policy back in 2005, nobody flamed him for doing so. Hypocrisy again.

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Nousernameforme · 30/05/2017 08:47

GetAHaircutCarl
With an insignificant majority which is why we now have yet another election

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 30/05/2017 08:47

I can't see why everyone on here is so certain of a Tory win. It's like mumsnet lives in a bubble away from the rest of social media.

Sorry but that is typical echo chamber and confirmation bias.

SM isn't the electorate. Plus you see an extremly small proportion of it.

My friends are teachers and T.As, some work for the nhs as nurses or are stuck on zero hours or have kids in schools. They are all voting labour and from comments on their posts and from talking to them their friends are all voting labour.
Grown up children of friends and their friends are wanting to vote Labour.

That's your group of friends.

There are teachers, those on zero hours and NHS workers that are voting Tory.

DancingLedge · 30/05/2017 08:47

I am amazed at how many people I am coming across who are lifelong Conservative voters, but don't feel they can vote for them this time- because of the NHS, and the social care issues.
And the fact that jokers like Boris have been put in positions of power.
Maybe, people have just had enough?

Nousernameforme · 30/05/2017 08:48

..And that was when they had Cameron who people liked.