AIBU to feel like giving up on the UK

[Fairysnuff321]

My OH is EU born, but has been living here with me and working , paying tax (go those who read the Daily Mail this may shock you)for 20 yrs. He has started his own business and is well respected in his industry. I've always worked in advocacy/counselling/support jobs, I am struggling to get back into work despite years of experience and training because of the lack of funding for these services.

I feel like accepting we have to leave the UK for the sake of our DD. I know so many people in this situation, and feel really sad that every day I hear stories like this...
"I work in the City as does my French partner: the European bankers, lawyers and asset managers are all talking about how London has changed for them now and are thinking it may be time to head home."
My husband feels the same.

SomethingOnce really? What if it affected your children though?

I left the UK...and my Mum and siblings because we were too poor to have a nice life. We had a shit flat and shit jobs...it was very painful to leave my Mum but I did it and now my DC have a lovely home in a clean town and a great school.

I could have stayed in the UK and been struggling I suppose. But would rather my children had a decent life.

Exactly, would think that understanding that would be fairly easy with basic empathy?

As I have pronounced repeatedly through this thread and can't really make it any plainer, I understand and empathise the uncertainty and lack of knowing what will happen. My point - as it has been throughout the thread - is can anybody explain why London has changed since the referendum and apart from emotive and uncertain arguments nobody has been able to give reasoning as to why Londons changed since June 23rd.

Mission people have told you already it's about many things but one of them is racism...to which you responded that it's worse in other countries.

That's neither here nor there and doesn't change the fact that racism and ignorance are on the rise.

Your "point" seems to be simply to get angry about people's feelings because you don't share them.

I'm not angry about anything, just perplexed. And yes I did bring up racism in other countries in Europe because people are saying they are leaving the UK because it has changed and become more racist since the referendum (still no explanation as to why) so I and others pointed out that the UK is far more tolerant than the rest of Europe. People have even said they are thinking of moving to Australia to get away from it which is laughable. Australia, with its record on its treatment of aborigines and stance on refugees.

What happened, did a branch of Pret close down.

The problem is, the endless bleats about "oh, well, we can be part of the EU ... it's the governments fault ... more housing" don't see first hand the results of this.

I live in a town much-praised for its building. At certain times of the day, the town is an island. No one can get in or out. The motorway linking the north of the town to the south is at a standstill in the morning. It's a mess.

We urgently need less people. That's an unfortunate fact and one people never like hearing, but we do.

This thread is becoming more and more frustrating to read.

If Brexit supporters want to shrug off the thick/ignorant/racist label - because clearly there are people who support Brexit for legitimate reasons to do with their experience of the UK's EU membership - then surely it's not beyond your abilities to separate out your frustration/anger at the EU, from your response to a woman who is clearly torn about what's best for her and her family?

The overall tone of this thread now seems to be "You don't like it? Off you fuck then". No engagement, no reflection, no sense that someone else's experience might be different from yours or mine.

" paying tax (go those who read the Daily Mail this may shock you)for 20 yrs "

oh get over yourself, please.
I feel like saying 'off you pop' then as well, I really do, and did not vote for Brexit.
As others have said, it you think it is 'racist' in the UK, you will have a nasty shock when you move elsewhere in the EU, Guess what? it's even worse!

SomethingOnce really? What if it affected your children though?

I occasionally meet elderly people whose family have emigrated (yesterday on the bus, funnily enough) and it breaks my heart. Things would have to be dire for me to do that to my mother.

@BillSykesDog,

The thing is, middle class people who can afford to pay more still want cheap labourers, cheap cleaners, cheap au-pairs, cheap meat, cheap taxis, and cheap everything without thinking about "what has to give" for all that stuff to be that cheap.

Other people's livelihoods.

Absolutely get you.

antigone I can't speak for the OP, but I'd guess we're not talking about a black person moving to somewhere with a loud and well-embraced right wing (I'm thinking of Poland/Hungary) where they'll be on the receiving end of racism. The reason a few people on this thread have spoken lovingly about Australia is presumably because they're not Aboriginal or part of another group that is subject to racist abuse - they're part of a demographic that made it feasible to assimilate. I.e. Australia may be racist, but they themselves aren't the subject of that racism.

I'd wager that the issue in the UK at the moment for the OP is that those on the receiving end of the abuse/distrust/anger are foreigners, specifically EU nationals, like her DH. So moving somewhere that doesn't have that hostility, and which still embraces the EU project has some appeal. If I read correctly her DH is German, and they'd look to move to Germany. It's not to say that Germany is without its problems, just that the particular vitriol which is directed at foreigners in the UK at the moment is absent there, which makes it a far more welcoming prospect.

I live in one of the most diverse and left-leaning bits of London, but elsewhere in the city I've had "Oh, so you'll be leaving soon", "You lot will need that passport queue soon" and the oh-so original "Go back to your country" since June 23, after nothing in the decade or so before that I've lived here. Brilliantly, I'm not even from the EU originally - someone just used my accent as an opportunity to vent. I'm incredibly saddened that this sort of thing is now condoned.

The overall tone of this thread now seems to be "You don't like it? Off you fuck then". No engagement, no reflection, no sense that someone else's experience might be different from yours or mine.

The overall tone to me is why is the OP trying to dramatise it? As another poster pointed out if everybody on the thread had said no, don't go, and offered the positives the UK has to offer would it change this persons position? No. Because they feel they have to leave. So instead of making a post on MN asking if they ABU to leave the UK and then stealth bashing Brexit, why not just make the decision and do it which is clearly what they want to do in the first place. I think people can fully sympathise and emphasise the difficult scenarios it may leave people in. It's the condescending attitudes they can do without.

Condoned by whom? Only racist arseholes. Sounds like the Paradise of London has more than its fair share.

Of course if you were Jewish and in the Jewish areas you'd know that the racism and attacks are constant and always have been.

" elsewhere in the city I've had "Oh, so you'll be leaving soon", "You lot will need that passport queue soon" and the oh-so original "Go back to your country" since June 23, "

that's terrible, hummus, but twas ever thus wasnt it? I mean I am white but my dad was Irish and my husband was Polish, and there were occasions over the years when I was like this..

Quite a few years ago i was sitting in one of the most multi cultural areas of our capital, having a drink with some Polish relatives, they were talking Polish and I was nodding and agreeing when i suddenly realised we were getting intense hostility from another table...
then there were the silly comments about the Irish from various friends, neighbours, teachers etc over the years.
I am just surprised that people are surprised, now that these kind of Brexit people are all feeling free to vent their real opinions.

I despair at the number of well off people I know who are like that.

A recent related example was a mother moaning about the activity class starting five (five!) minutes late (because other parents absolutely had to speak at length with the teacher then and there, rather than emailing her) because she expected to have every second of what she'd paid for. There's a shortsighted 'value for money' attitude afflicting a certain type of comfortable MC person these days.

The same type of parents are happy to have the teacher waste her time chasing late payment of invoices.

The thing is, antigone, I've literally had this only since Brexit. From that I concluded that Brexit what was did it - for all I know people have been hoping I fuck off for the last ten years, but they never said it to my face .

YABU. I live abroad and here they feel exactly the same. Living standards are plummeting everywhere. It's a crisis of capitalism - not restricted to any one country.

And I've been verbally abused for being British and Italy is still v much in the EU.

hmm it does make you wonder doesn't it Hummus...

Billysykes post is exactly why Brexit happened.Why do people not want to admit this? (No dog in the fight as I too am not from here and thus can't vote),but surely you can see the issues affecting their lives ?

Mission I have to say that I was worried about racism here in Australia but since moving here I've found it very inclusive indeed.

Yes, there are huge problems with the mistreatment (ongoing) of indigenous people but there are many people fighting to correct things.

It will take years though. The issues have been neglected throughout the years and so there's a follow through with intergenerational traumas...it's not as ignorant here as people make out.

I only know that with a DH who is a tradesman, we were barely getting by in the UK. Here in Oz we have a very, very nice standard of living.

Hummus you said
"The reason a few people on this thread have spoken lovingly about Australia is presumably because they're not Aboriginal or part of another group that is subject to racist abuse - they're part of a demographic that made it feasible to assimilate. I.e. Australia may be racist, but they themselves aren't the subject of that racism."

Which I take exception to. Partly becaue you make a MASSIVE assumption about me and others being inherently racist and partly because you ASSUME I was part of a demographic that made moving feasable.

I'm working class and so is DH and we saved and struggled for a LONG time to get here. It's fuck all to do with being able to afford it easily or to do with being in jobs which were in high demand.

user there's nothing about my post which relates to your wealth/buying power - "demographic" here relates to the fact that you're presumably not part of a group that's typically on the receiving end of abuse in Australia, not whether you could or did buy your buy anywhere.

There's also nothing about my post which implies that you're racist - just (again) that you're presumably not part of a group that's typically on the receiving end of abuse in Australia.

Hummus You said that everyone not the subject of racism speaks lovingly about Australia because they're not a victim. As though we're all "I'm alright Jack"

Which isn't true and implies racism...deep seated racism.

user here's that bit of my post again: "The reason a few people on this thread have spoken lovingly about Australia is presumably because they're not Aboriginal or part of another group that is subject to racist abuse - they're part of a demographic that made it feasible to assimilate."

What I am getting at is that you feel comfortable in Australia because (among other things, presumably) you're not subject to abuse there on the basis of your race (or foreignness, or whatever else), and possibly that you'd not have moved there if you felt that was a risk - in short, the country suits you. That doesn't imply that you condone racism towards marginalised groups in Oz. The comparison here is with an OP who is at the sharp end of xenophobia here, and so considering leaving.

If that doesn't clear up my post for you, I can only leave you to be offended.