to think it's finally time England deals with its Katy Hopkins problem?

[Fliptophead]

I know she feeds off publicity and the best thing really would be to ignore her until she shrivels and dies of fame starvation so I apologise for the thread but this is really too much now isn't it?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/manchester-bombing-katie-hopkins-final-solution-muslims-arena-terror-attack-phillip-schofield-a7750656.html

Btw you read your history, it wasn't long ago we were locking ira suspects up without charge

That was a Bad Thing. Not something to emulate.

I really don't know why I;'m bothering if you're harking back to Thatcherite internment as a good think to bring back.

Once you live in a country where people can be jailed without charge, you live in a dictatorship. A fascist regime.

Yes, exactly.

It shocks me how easily some would give up their hard-won legal and civil rights.

We have great rights - hard won - in this country. But there is a group which is shitting on them.

Terrorism is not in the same category as stealing a loaf of bread. Tip-toeing around because someone is only suspected of plotting to kill and maim has led to this pretty pass.

The status quo is not acceptable. I do not want the security forces to have to play catch up. If someone is on the radar, then they jolly well have forfeited their "rights" .

It really worries me how many people are ignorant of how fascism starts.

It also worries me that people who do know how fascism starts - and I include Hopkins and the Daily Mail in that - seem to have no issue in repeating the same ideas.

Maybe we should get rid of people like judges who uphold human rights

Just to remind you

So you'd rather live in a country where we have 3 thousand men linked to terrorist organisations who can and will do exactly the same as what happened at Manchester, but rather than deport or lock them up we'll just leave them be because after all they have their human rights. I bet you wouldn't think like that if you'd just lost your child.
So what is your answer to the problem?

Without wanting to come over all Godwin, it really is worth reading about the rise of the Nazis. There were two fundamental changes they had to make before they were free to head off towards genocide. The first was that they had to divide the people into "us" and "the enemy within". The second was that they had to create and exploit such fear that "the enemy" could then be stripped of any rights under than law. Then the Nazis were good to go.

lady

What do you think happens at the moment?

Maybe what you think happens is not what actually happens.

Also - if you start detaining and imprisoning people without charge, what impact do you think that might have on other Muslims who may be susceptible to radicalisation?

If someone is on the radar, then they jolly well have forfeited their "rights"

And when someone is wrongly "on the radar"? What then? What when its you on the radar?
Or do you jolly well think it's only the browner folks that will be put in your camps? You too pale?

So you'd rather live in a country where we have 3 thousand men linked to terrorist organisations who can and will do exactly the same as what happened at Manchester, but rather than deport or lock them up we'll just leave them be because after all they have their human rights

Yes, I would rather that. Because I'm NOT A FACIST.

So you'd rather live in a country where we have 3 thousand men linked to terrorist organisations who can and will do exactly the same as what happened

One thing I wouldn't do is create a situation where you have 'them' and 'us'. Create a situation where you alienate the community. Make them less likely to engage with police. Have families where their child is jailed because they are friends with someone who has been to Syria.

Look at how many plots have been stopped. How do you think they were stopped? Where do you think the intelligence came from?

The community.

People are so high handed on this thread.

The self-styled "first class minds" who think they are holding two ideas in their heads by condemning KH equally with the terrorists. You aren't condemning equally, you're actually more worried about KH, which is just numptyish and wrong.

The proud defenders of Britain's civil rights record. Ever heard of Northern Ireland?

Finally the reference to the rise of Nazism. So irrelevant in this context as to cause actual, physical pain.

I don't believe most people would think rounding up friends/family of suspected terrorists en-masse was the best way forward, but a bit more control/further investigation over who re-enters this country having had a short "holiday" in Syria or Libya would be a start.

You aren't condemning equally, you're actually more worried about KH, which is just numptyish and wrong

Actually - I'm worried about where this will end with people like her and other vocal people, including people on this thread, who don't seem to understand where things can end.

If you're talking about internment without trial then here are the two outcomes:

1. a moderate form in which you've imprisoned a mixture of bad guys and some neutral/good guys but there'll still be some bad guys out there; or

2. a severe form in which you'll have got most of the bad guys but you'll have imprisoned loads of neutral/good guys.

3. won't give you the security you were hoping for. 2) won't give you the security you were hoping for but for very different reasons.

but a bit more control/further investigation over who re-enters this country having had a short "holiday" in Syria or Libya would be a start

WTF do you think MI5 do all day?

It already is them or us, we wouldn't be making it that way.The intelligence service have these people on the radar. Their hands are tied, why the hell should we have to wait till they do it again. We need protecting from them because they want to kill us. What do you think should be happening, and no we wouldn't be living in a fascist state, needs must where needs must. A governments duty is to protect its people.

It already is them or us

Who is them?
Who is us?

The self-styled "first class minds" Indeed.
Comparing a self publicising gobshite to terrorists is an insult to the bereaved. They never come into these oh so intellectual discussions.
There is a terrible problem and Katie Hopkins is the least of our worries.

There is a terrible problem and Katie Hopkins is the least of our worries

Do you think the views of people like Hopkins and the demands for jailing people without charge are a problem?

Actually - I'm worried about where this will end with people like her and other vocal people, including people on this thread, who don't seem to understand where things can end.
You mean like dead from a terrorists bomb.

I'm sure people understand all too well, Orlantina. You are making the classic error of underestimating other people. The minute your original argument runs out of steam you're onto the person, not the ball.

Oh yeah, all the vocal people on this thread, unspecified, will bring everything down because their understanding is so inferior to yours!

Comparing a self publicising gobshite to terrorists is an insult to the bereaved

Can you show us where anyone has done that? (you can't).

Peeps, if you can't understand the thread, please go find an easier one. This isn't Human Decency 101, we can't teach baby fascists anything here.

Amazing how some people are all for removing the human rights of some people, never thinking it would happen to them. Either human rights are universal, in which case we apply them to absolutely everyone, no matter how evil and depraved, because they are still human, or we pick and choose just which humans are the right kind of humans, which dehumanises all of us.

If you take away someone else's human rights, yours are at risk too. Same as all those people who voted for Trump and then find themselves or their family members deported. They never thought he meant them. They didn't think the tiger would bite them.

If you take away someone's human rights, you are in effect saying they are no longer human. People who aren't human? Where have we heard that before? Oh yeah, Nazism. That ended well, didn't it?

Believing in and applying human rights to everyone, however, does not mean we give them a free rein to commit terrorist atrocities or other crimes. We can, will and do protect ourselves as much as possible.

If you believe we are better than these fascists, terrorists, dictators and supremacists, you have to bloody well act like it. That means the rule of law, not mob rule, not pitchforks, not lynching, not 'disappearing' people. History tells us this. Hell, some contemporary events in places like China tell us this. You open the door to this kind of tyranny, it can be very difficult to close it again.

The self-styled "first class minds" who think they are holding two ideas in their heads by condemning KH equally with the terrorists.

It's called emotional intelligence. But nobody has said they condemn KH equally with the terrorists. They are different things.

We are condemning KH's response as damaging and dangerous. And we're giving the reasons why it's dangerous for her to call for a final solution.

Fascist rhetoric helps nobody in the aftermath of a terrorist attack.

Exactly, derxa, I think that's the only point we've been trying to make.