to think it's finally time England deals with its Katy Hopkins problem?

[Fliptophead]

I know she feeds off publicity and the best thing really would be to ignore her until she shrivels and dies of fame starvation so I apologise for the thread but this is really too much now isn't it?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/manchester-bombing-katie-hopkins-final-solution-muslims-arena-terror-attack-phillip-schofield-a7750656.html

Do you think kosher meat should be banned too squirreltrap?

They are not tagged - they are in your words "kept tabs on"

"Yes I do have a problem with Kosher meat seeing as it is the same process. I do not think "religious exclusions" have any place in our laws."

Neither do I. But halal meat is routinely pre stunned in this country. You are consistently ignoring this point.

How are these religious methods of slaughtering any worse to the brutality of the dairy or chicken industry?

You can reassess it as you like but empire building rape, theft and murder have not been suddenly OK'd by the majority.

You might as well say slavery was fine because it's resulted in a very racially diverse American society.

So, by tagged you mean electronic tags?
But that can only be done after going through the courts.

By that reasoning, we should be tagging KH, and any far right activist with links to far right criminals, including any links to Anders Breivik. Does that sound reasonable?

How about anyone with Nazi memorabilia at home?

"No, I am saying that people who clearly express association with IS (who wants to eradicate by murder all infidels) then they have no place in our society."

How do you identify them?

Most us use final solution in all kinds of contexts regularly eg relating to sorting out a drains issue in the house.

Er...no we don't.

I also disagree with your characterisation of KT's comments as 'casual' and 'badly worded'. I think they are anything but.

And if you think that this and other incidents won't be used to ensure greater internet scrutiny, snooping, censorship and spying, you're very much mistaken. TM's already got her ducks in a row on that one.

squirrel How do you feel about stunned halal meat?

Genuine question. Where do we send british terrorists? What if no country wants them?

Second genuine question if we find a country to take them, does it seem wise to you to send a person with a british accent and dodgy leanings to a country where his brand of fundamentalism is considered acceptable? DO you not think that person would be seen as a fucking gift from above?

Are we not as a country actively trying to STOP people from going back to these countries to be trained as they could infiltrate (very easily as they're british).

MI5 are able to identify these people. We are not brutal savages who want to take away people's freedom. We are a reasonable society with a strong and developed value system (ironically demonstrated through the hysteria about KH). You and I both know, the security services hands are tied, why is it every time a Manchester happens the perpetrator was "known to the security services"?

We need to create progress here. I am not a lawyer, but there will be fair and just ways in which we can stop being sitting ducks.

BTW, on the effectiveness of electronic tagging, by none other than the DM:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2207648/Tagging-criminals-1billion-failure-leaves-free-commit-offences-curfew.html

"Tagging criminals 'has been a £1billion failure and leaves them free to commit offences when not under curfew'"

"Offenders are unmonitored when not at home where there tag works in tandem with monitoring device
Think-tank behind new study calls for new tags that monitor criminal's every movement using GPS
Approximately 80,000 criminals are tagged every year"

By actually tagging them with a physical device, you're letting them know they're under surveillance and not collecting any intelligence on bigger attacks or the masterminds.
Besides, tagging should be just as effective against someone who is willing to commit suicide as the death penalty.

there will be fair and just ways in which we can stop being sitting ducks.

There ARE. It's called what the security forces are ALREADY doing.

But if you have any really new and fantastic solutions do let them know.

squirrel How do you feel about stunned halal meat?

If it complies with the Salughter of animals act without the need for "religious exclusion" then this is fine.

squirreltrap

There are also quite a few relevant questions you've swerved.

Stolen from another thread (it explains my comment about tags and death penalty):

John Stevens‏Verified account
@johnestevens

Ex-Ukip MEP @Janice4Brexit demands return of death penalty following suicide bomb attack in Manchester

---------------------

Kevin Schofield‏Verified account @PolhomeEditor 17h17 hours ago
Kevin Schofield Retweeted John Stevens
Don't think that'll do much to deter a suicide bomber.

MI5 are able to identify these people.

If they are, and if they can actually tag them to a crime, then they will arrest them. If they don't it may be because they are hoping to follow them to bigger fish.

Fact of the matter is verbally supporting ISIS, or calling for Shariah law, is not a crime anymore than Neo-Nazi's supporting Hitler and calling for white rights is. At least not until they can be determined to be inciting violence. Which is why hate speech laws are so important. However, you can't arrest these guys for verbally supporting ISIS and not arrest KH for calling for genocide.

Either we uphold our values which include a right to trial, freedom of speech and freedom of religion and movement or we toss them away, we can't pick and choose who we toss them away for. We can't say it's ok to be a white supremacist but not ok to be an Islamic fundamentalist.

The downside of a society that supports human rights is that sometimes horrible things like this happen. It's the danger we face by being an open society. And either you support an open society and accept that danger as part of our freedoms, or you call for a society that values "safety" over freedom and human rights, in which case I suggest you move to ISIS territory, because they want the same thing.

Any halal chicken sold in supermarkets, chain restaurants...anywhere in fact where you're likely to be buying meat if you're not Muslim is pre-stunned and slaughtered exactly the same way as the chicken that isn't halal.

Lweji - you are living in a dream world. I am not sure you understand the threat these people pose. The laws currently are not sufficient, they are allowing people who have explicitly expressed an alliance with IS to remain free until they do something. You know this, we have just witnessed it here in Manchester.

We have an identity in Britain and people are now here who come with different views, we don't have to be war-y and aggressive and hateful, but we do have to acknowledge that these divisions exist, not just hope it will go away when they realise how amazing we actually are

Any halal chicken sold in supermarkets, chain restaurants...anywhere in fact where you're likely to be buying meat if you're not Muslim is pre-stunned and slaughtered exactly the same way as the chicken that isn't halal.

It isn't

Lweji - what have I swerved?

Lweji - you are living in a dream world. I am not sure you understand the threat these people pose.

Are you fucking serious?

You are living in a dream world where only muslims are a problem, where you think there's a solution to prevent all terrorist attacks and that nobody is doing anything at all.

Get real. This is real life. Where shit happens, despite our best efforts. Where bad people do bad things and we can't prevent it all.

You haven't answered this, for example:

By that reasoning, we should be tagging KH, and any far right activist with links to far right criminals, including any links to Anders Breivik. Does that sound reasonable?

How about anyone with Nazi memorabilia at home?

We have an identity in Britain and people are now here who come with different views, we don't have to be war-y and aggressive and hateful, but we do have to acknowledge that these divisions exist, not just hope it will go away when they realise how amazing we actually are

And that is the attitude in a nutshell that makes young men and women who may not think that "traditional British culture" is all that and a bag of chips feel isolated and resentful.

"It isn't"

It is.

The standard method of mass slaughtering chickens is pre-stunning and cutting their throats with a mechanised blade.