to think it's finally time England deals with its Katy Hopkins problem?

[Fliptophead]

I know she feeds off publicity and the best thing really would be to ignore her until she shrivels and dies of fame starvation so I apologise for the thread but this is really too much now isn't it?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/manchester-bombing-katie-hopkins-final-solution-muslims-arena-terror-attack-phillip-schofield-a7750656.html

There is such a dramatic reaction to KH it is hard to take it seriously. On the one hand you all seem to recognise she is a gobshite, on the other are taking her words seriously. For the record, she is just a gobshite and she has no position of power, and she is allowed her free speech, much as most of us don't like it.

You bet there were many people who believed that Hitler was just a nasty little psycho with zero chance at succeeding. But he picked at the barely healed scabs of Germany's wounds after the WWI and he managed to inflame them.
It's what the Daily Fail is doing on a daily basis. "Stop reading the DM" is not the answer. Just because you close your eyes, it doesn't mean they will disappear.

Yes, it's not so much what she says, but how it spreads and how it's taken by people.
People on this thread who aren't even fully aware of the meaning of what she said, defend her right to say it and even distract from the enormity of what she said with a bash of people who follow a given religion.

So, "final solution" is the answer?

This does make you sound hysterical. I hate it when someone says that to me, but it is relevant. No, it is not about exterminating a group of people, but it certainly is about standing up for our values and laws. We cannot continue to allow the drip drip erosion of these things, we need to tighten the laws around supporters of terrorism (which I believed David Blunkett tried to do and we did our whole "don't be mean to terrorists thing" - and I believe there are currently 500 people in the UK who are on our streets who actively support terrorism but the authorities cannot do anything other than monitor them, not even tag them) and we need to start being individually accountable for standing up to violations to our law in the guise of protecting religion.

"Halal meat can be (and usually is) pre stunned

That sentence should read: All our meat is pre-stunned

See what I mean about erosion of our hard fought laws?"

I put "usually" because I don't know whether it all is. I know that all the halal meat sold by major British suppliers is. But there has always been an exception for Kosher slaughter in British law, and I assume that whatever the caveat is that allows that could also be used by Muslim butchers. I don't think there has been any erosion of laws on this point.

squirrel, do you feel as impassioned about ending kosher slaughter of animals? Because they don't use stunning either. Yet it's always halal that racists people bang on about.

I want to boycott halal because I find it inhumane to animals

That's a bit like boycotting a brand of clothing because it's made by 5 year old kids whilst wearing clothing made by 6 year old kids and thinking that makes you better.

"standing up for our values and laws. We cannot continue to allow the drip drip erosion of these things,"

Like what?

Lweji - you have to defend the right to speak. The alternative is too awful. She changed it, so even if worst case she meant it, she changed it, she was challenged, her true views were aired (so we all are sure what sort of person she is) and it deemed unacceptable by most people. What more do you want?

Theres quite a lot we could do. Not letting these men who are known to have links to terrorist groups back into the country would be a start. The ones who are known to the police who are under surveillance should not be allowed back after their "visits" to countries which have Isis strongholds.

You know, squirreltrap, anyone who uses hysterical to refer to someone else has lost the argument in my book.

No, it is not about exterminating a group of people, but it certainly is about standing up for our values and laws.

So, you don't agree with Katie Hopkins and think she's out of line? Or not?

What do you mean by standing up for our values and laws? And how would that prevent what happened in Manchester?

www.independent.co.uk/voices/if-we-cant-ban-halal-meat-we-should-at-least-let-people-know-when-theyre-buying-it-a7178481.html

Not letting these men who are known to have links to terrorist groups back into the country would be a start. The ones who are known to the police who are under surveillance should not be allowed back after their "visits" to countries which have Isis strongholds.

What if they never left?

Surely the police keep tabs on these men anyway. There's a lot behind the scenes that none of us is even barely aware of. There's quite a lot that comes out in the news, though.

Nobody can fully prevent these attacks anymore than burglaries can be fully prevented, or drug dealing, or most crimes.

I couldn't give a shiny shit what KH says. I don't think Muslims should be exterminated if that is what you are asking. Shame I have to clarify that.

you have to defend the right to speak

Unless it's hate speech. When you look at what KH, the Daily Hate, sometimes UKIP, sometimes Trump and sometimes the Tories are saying, and you compare it with Nazi propaganda, you can see an awful lot of similarities.

This is why a lot of people are concerned. History is repeating itself. Whipping up anti-'other' sentiment was the forerunner to Nazism. It allowed Hitler to kill 6 million Jews and attack Europe, slaughtering millions more.

You might think it won't happen, and I really fervently hope it doesn't too, but I think vigilance and defending our right to speak out against Nazis and fascism is important too.

Tesco policy on halal/kosher meat

Britain has not allowed its laws on animal welfare to be eroded to accommodate Muslim customers.

Surely the police keep tabs on these men anyway. There's a lot behind the scenes that none of us is even barely aware of. There's quite a lot that comes out in the news, though.

They have approx 500 people in the UK to "keep tabs" on. These are people who have evidenced support of IS and their goals. That is a tough job to "keep tabs" on them - the law needs to detain them or remove them to another country. Because they want to kill us - we are infidels to them and nothing more

Candle vigils won't change their mind and they suddenly see us as rather reasonable folk after all

www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10816716/Find-out-which-supermarkets-and-restaurants-sell-halal-meat.html

Bertrand - why are you so defiant in your defence of this topic? There should be NO Halal meat AT ALL in the UK IMO, why do you support it?

So are suggesting changing our laws so you can be detained indefinitely because the police think you might at some stage in the future commit a crime?

I think this^ says it all. British history isn't about progress and fucking change. I'm fascinated to read the history books you read.

Perhaps try Niall Ferguson's writing on Empire for a start. Then maybe move on to any of the other history books which have moved on from the Marxist interpretation to reassess Empire highlighting that it did bring benefits including free trade, democracy, common law, a lingua franca and infrastructure. Perhaps have a look at the 2000 Abertbemy study which found that former British colonies have much higher levels of civil rights and freedom than other Empire colonies or non-Empire countries.

If you're not aware of that very well known reassessment of Britain's place in the international context I would suggest you probably shouldn't be scoffing at other people's knowledge of history.

We need much more free speech in the UK, not much less!

Casual comment on line which is badly worded cannot be prosecuted every time it comes up. It was not a good choice of words because of the association people made with it. Most us use final solution in all kinds of contexts regularly eg relating to sorting out a drains issue in the house.

We have guidelines on prosecutions for tweets and social media comment. These are very sensibly worded. You can read them at

www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/communications_sent_via_social_media/

Look at that poor Chinese student who returned to China and tweeted in China about how nice it was in the US to breath the free air. We neve want to get to a position where we censor people like the Chinese do otherwise we have no freedom.

"Bertrand - why are you so defiant in your defence of this topic? There should be NO Halal meat AT ALL in the UK IMO, why do you support it?"

If it is slaughtered in exactly the same way as all other meat apart from being prayed over, I see no reason why not.

I notice you are avoiding the subject of Kosher meat. Which is, I believe, never prestunned.

( I have no problems with different ways of killing animals as long as it is labelled and people get a choice. Let us have liberty, free speech and choice.)

No, I am saying that people who clearly express association with IS (who wants to eradicate by murder all infidels) then they have no place in our society.

You'd rather be a sitting duck it seems.

On one hand, you are up in arms about KH's 'hate speech' but on the other you seem to think people who express clear directive that they wish to commit mass murder (like actually do it) are fine to carry on. There is something going wrong with your thinking.

Paedophiles are tagged, at the very least these people should be tagged.

Paedophiles are tagged, at the very least these people should be tagged.

They ARE!!! Where have you been living? Don't you read the news? Any?

Yes I do have a problem with Kosher meat seeing as it is the same process. I do not think "religious exclusions" have any place in our laws.