To be irrationally annoyed by people with lots of DCs

[Iloverichtea]

I know IABU really.

And that it's irrational, mostly groundless and a bit unfair.

But it really annoys me!

Any other irrational annoyances out there? I have tonnes more

[LaurieMarlow]

For what it's worth Ex, I have 1 DC. I acknowledge that none would be better from an environmental pov.

But balancing our need to look after the planet with our biological urge to reproduce, I think 2 is fair game, as that's replacing you and your DP. After that, for me, it's more morally questionable.

Personally, I'm probably better than average on the measures you outline, but lots of room for improvement. And of course it's worth doing them.

I just feel we must acknowledge that a big family is not a choice without consequences. As I said, having kids is one of the most impactful things you can do to the world. It's not comaparable to not recycling it racking up air miles, it's much more consequential than that.

And I agree wholeheartedly that a lot of western behaviour is selfish, having lots kids is not unusual in that regard.

[stuckin90s]

You really all should look up the thing about livestock being the most damaging thing for the environment.
I was surprised by this. So you could have a vegan family if 10 that are more environmentally friendly than a meat eating family of 3.

[ExPresidents]

I just don't see how you can have any children, if you hold the viewpoint that it's damaging and selfish. We suppress other biological urges all the time, that's not a good enough reason to have children if you truly believe it's morally questionable.

It's either bad to have them, or it's not, you can't say 'I'm ok because I only have one/two/three but everyone who has more than that is morally suspect'. What about contraceptive failures? What if their 'biological urge' is stronger than yours? What about twins/triplets?

If there's lots of room for improvement on your own environmental score card, and you really give a shit about the planet, take a look at yourself.

[LaurieMarlow]

Ex, you're a great example of the defensiveness I referenced in my first post.

I am taking a look at myself, that's kind of the point. I've given it a lot of thought and my personal moral compass has decided that 2 children is legitimate, because it's about replacement. I agree that you can't help contraceptive failures or multiple births.

I personally hold that more, without those mitigating factors, is morally questionable. You don't have to agree with me.

[ExPresidents]

Laurie I wondered how long it would take before 'defensiveness' got thrown out there. Give me an example of a family-based/parenting choice you've made to which there are pros and cons, differing viewpoints, but you really believe you're doing what is right for you, your family, society at large. Let lots of strangers jump all over it calling you a selfish fucking twat, morally questionable, a benefit scrounger, narcissistic, damaging, telling you your family is broken and miserable and then tell me if you feel defensive.

You're a great example of the horrible name calling regarding big families I referenced in my earlier post [passive aggressive winky face right back atcha]

Your personal moral compass has absolutely no meaning as a benchmark for other people to live their lives by, so I don't think you get to call people selfish without appearing extremely hypocritical.

I don't agree with you, so that's good.

[Dianneabbottsmathsteacher]

People who drive right up my arse op and people who parent loudly and then look to see if you are impressed. I always yawn in their faces

[Dianneabbottsmathsteacher]

Oh yes and people who let toddlers run along the pavement and into roads and then blest 'but they won't wear reins' fucking idiots

[LaurieMarlow]

Ex, of course my personal moral compass has no bearing on how others should live their lives, it's MINE. It governs my behaviour and it is (like it or not) the prism through which I view others' behaviour. But that's the height of it.

You seem to have an issue with others not wholeheartedly validating your choices. I'm sure there are hundreds of things I do that you wouldn't agree with.

But on the issue of large families, I have a right to an opinion in the morality of it. Equally, you have a right to give zero shits about my opinion.

[stuckin90s]

If previous generations had limited their total of children, a lot of us probably wouldn't even be here. And we do need more young people because the baby boomer generation is so large.

[Riversleep]

Yes but those young people then become old people, who need support from young people. It's not a solution to keep having more and more babies.

[KERALA1]

Exactly river that's always trotted out but makes no sense to me. Fwiw I entirely share your view point though doesn't make us very popular...

[KERALA1]

Sorry meant Laurie. Though agree with river too

[MaudAndOtherPoems]

There's a poster who has often posted on previous versions of these threads who describes the "we need more babies to pay our future pensions" argument as a Ponzi scheme.

[mumoseven]

Any more than 7 is just showing off in my humble opinion...

[GaelicSiog]

mumo my mother has 10. It wrecked her body, I assure you she wasn't showing off. Birth control was illegal back then you see

[38cody]

I don't "not like" people with lots of children, but they aren't thinking about the greater good when they have lots of children. It is rather selfish

Can you hand-on-heart say that you were thinking of 'the greater good' when you decided to have however many children suit your family?
Come on - how silly.

I have 4 - because that suited me.

People who insist their dogs are friendly and try to encourage my children to touch the mangy beasts annoy me!!!

[Riversleep]

I hate that too re the dogs. I'm always suspicious of people who say their dog is the most gentle dog ever and would never bite. Especially when faced with a massive Alsatian or something.

[KERALA1]

38cody I did actually. I would have felt guilty having more than 2.

[Smellbellina]

What's ok about 2 Kerala ?

[Riversleep]

Even though I seem to be posting a lot, I'm not hugely bothered over and above a vague discomfort about dwindling resources and hoping we will be able to feed everyone on GM crops and insects, but 2 children is below replacement level so will eventually lead to a slowing of the global population increase. We are heading for 11bn people on the planet.

[MaudAndOtherPoems]

Yes, exactly that. It's the hurtling towards 11 billion (and the implications of that) that worries me.