to ask how most of our mothers coped?

[ItalianScallion]

I was born in the 70's. My mother was a SAHM and there were three of us kids. My father worked night shifts.

The youngest of us was born when I was four and the oldest was 7. My mother got us up, took us to school, took us to after school activities and sports whilst maintaining a ridiculously clean home, and doing all the laundry etc with no help or family support.

My DH has a similar upbringing except his mother and father were living abroad and travelled to several different countries to live because of the nature of FIL's work. My MIL worked nights and so they would literally hand over the kids to each other as one came home and the other went to work.

I feel that we were all raised pretty decently and I have a huge amount of respect for my parents and PIL.

Which brings me to my AIBU to think that we are getting softer? My mother and MIL shake their heads in disbelief when they hear of mothers who SAHM, have a nanny/au pair and a weekly cleaner and still talk about how they're not coping.

Don't get me wrong, parenting is a hard job but it seems that popular parenting ideas and methods are allowing us to make rods for our own backs.

Please understand I'm not referring to women with PND or any MH issues. This is MN so I know I'll be flamed by people with their anecdotes of difficult babies and their specific struggles, and I agree that there will always be exceptions to the rule. Still, I can't help but feel that we don't 'just get on with it' the way our mothers did.

[BandeauSally]

There are still 18 year olds being sent off to war zones. And some 18 year olds might have debates shut down because they can't have disagreement but plenty others aren't. Plenty are dealing with a lot more shit than some 18 year olds in the 1940s had to deal with.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

Mine didnt.

She coped with the cooking, the shopping, the cleaning, parents evenings blah blah. But in order to keep that up she let the parenting go. Rules were put in place and if they were broken then a full on meltdown of a beating that punctuated a sentence was the result.

My father spent more time with other peoples kids than his own as he kept up his premarriage hobby that led him to be promoted to train the youngsters coming through.

They worked through it and are nowblissfully happy in their retirement. My sister and I? Not so much.......

[ItalianScallion]

Pyongyang

[PyongyangKipperbang]

Plenty are dealing with a lot more shit than some 18 year olds in the 1940s had to deal with.

I have to take issue with this.

That is absolute and utter bollocks.

The difference between then and now is that when people (not just young people) have mental health issues say, they are acknowledged and there is help available. Then it was a case of "Buck up, sort yourself out". My great aunt had severe MH issues which if they they happened now would be dealt with very differently to what happened then. She went off "on one of her holidays" (my grandmothers words) to have EST and then would be sent home to get steadily worse until she had another "holiday". The effect on her kids was devastating, but again "Buck up".

What kids today dont have to deal with is the expectation that at 14/16/18/21 you are on your own 2 feet. They dont have to deal with a son taking over as breadwinner at 14 because Dad has died and mum is home with younger siblings. They dont have to deal with being part of a family that doesnt get livable benefits and maintenance if a parent fucked off. They rarely have to deal with being married with kids at 18 in a world where divorce was theoretically available, but in the real world didnt happen.

We all have it a hell of a lot easier and yet almost none of us appreciate that.

[toffeeboffin]

Interesting thread.

My mum was saying a SAHM for five years whilst my brother and I were small. We were 20 months apart. She worked part time when my brother started school. I was born in 1982.

Five years as a SAHM was normal.
My dad worked a blue collar job and we had a big detached three bed house. No luxuries but fed well/clothed /holidays. Yes, she struggled with the twin tub washer and managing the housekeeping money but she didn't have to think about returning to work that soon. She could have been a SAHM forever but read Spare Rib and became a social worker instead!

I've been on mat leave for four months and both SIL and FIL have expressed surprise that I'm taking a year off and not returning to work sooner.

Nowadays we as women are expected to do it all. Job, children, house, slim, well dressed etc.

My mother's generation simply didn't have this expectation.

[ItalianScallion]

deadringer, a true Wonder Woman.

[toffeeboffin]

I do agree that people need to buck up a bit.

People need to be accountable for their actions. That's the problem. Take responsibility. It can and is your fault sometimes.

[BandeauSally]

That is absolute and utter bollocks.

It really isn't. You have no idea what some 18 year olds are going through today.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

Sorry Italian didnt mean it to sound so bleak! But I think that appearances was a thing the 70's when I grew up. We had a great community in our street....sorry cul-de-sac....:o and the kids where in and out of each others houses. But we all knew when one of us was in the shit.

Its like it didnt matter if the kids where left to find out the unspoken rules by breaking them, as long as the lounge was immaculate.

I remember once screaming out loud when she was off on one, and being told to shut up in case the neighbours heard. Being a clever child I screamed even louder....:o

[PyongyangKipperbang]

You have no idea what some 18 year olds are going through today.

Do I not? And how do you know that?

[BandeauSally]

And plenty of 18 year olds in the 1940s had none of those issues you listed.

[BandeauSally]

Do I not? And how do you know that?

Your assertion that I was talking bollocks.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

And what are 18 year olds going through today that is so different to what 18's went through then? Except that then there was the expectation that "shit happens, pull yourself up and sort yourself out" and it was never discussed.

[ItalianScallion]

Pyongyang, don't engage. She's been popping up spoiling for an argument since the start of the thread. There have been some brilliant stories and insights shared and it's a shame that one person seems determined to drag it somewhere it doesn't need to go.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

And plenty of 18 year olds in the 1940s had none of those issues you listed

More did than didnt.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

italian I havent RTFT so thank you for your advice, I will take it.

[BandeauSally]

Feel free to ignore if it suits you. You can't seriously expect to assert that every 18 year old around today has it easier than every 18 year old in the 1940's and expect it to go unchallenged.

[EBearhug]

I agree with those who think we were left alone a lot more. I don't remember my parents playing with us much at all, though maybe they did when we were very small, and I just don't remember. But mostly if it was dry, we were out in the garden, and if it wasn't, we were expected to entertain ourselves.

We had to help out quite a bit, too. Rainy school holiday days would sometimes have the kitchen table covered in newspaper, and we'd all sit round cleaning all the brass and silver and chat. We did that from quite young. We had a fairly large garden, too, and in the summer, we each had to go and pick a colander of strawberries or raspberries or which ever other soft fruit was in glut, and sometimes when we got home from school, too. I also remember kitchen table sessions topping and tailing blackcurrants, gooseberries, redcurrants etc to get them ready for freezing, podding peas and beans and so on. The amount of housework we were expected to do as we grew older increased, too. I'm not sure the house was spotless, but it was certainly cleaner than mine is now.

I think the lack of media helped - and phone conversations were usually held in public, so they were shorter, because you're not going to tell someone your deepest secrets when everyone else can hear, and you can't move where the phone is, because it's heavy with just a short cable.

Still had plenty of evening and weekend activities, though - I think this is partly because we lived on a farm and it was the only way we got to see people out of school - but it also meant we had to be driven - unsafe to walk, no buses. But Mum & Dad always had their own activities, too (evening classes, NFU meetings etc.) Logistics were challenging at times, and involved other people, e.g. shared lifts, or going round to someone's house for tea then swimming club.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

You can't seriously expect to assert that every 18 year old around today has it easier than every 18 year old in the 1940's and expect it to go unchallenged.

I didnt.

And you might want to re-read what you actually said before kicking off at me, particularly in reference to the word "some". :o

And now I am done.

[yayayahey]

My Mum fucked off when I was 7 so she didn't cope that well.

[ItalianScallion]

Pyongyang, to have such an in-depth knowledge of 18 year olds in the 1940s, our friend must have been around that age at that time. This means she's in her mid-late 90s and should be in bed rather than arguing with strangers on the interwebs.

[BandeauSally]

Exactly pyong

I said Plenty are dealing with a lot more shit than some 18 year olds in the 1940s had to deal with.

Which you said was absolute and utter bollocks. Meaning you think all the 18 year olds in the 1840s had a worse time of it than all the 18 year olds now.

[BandeauSally]

And OP, ageism isn't cool.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

Italian Sorry!!!

I am currently writing a book about my grandparents who hit 18 at the start of the second world war and thanks to my grandfathers diaries I do know more than your average bear about such things, which makes me an easy target for the goaders!

SITS ON HANDS

[FreeNiki]

In a way 1940s lives were less complicated.

i remember as if it was yesterday the summer holidays before university started i was thinking of all the debt i was going to accumulate and if i really wanted to do it.

An 18 yo in 1940 wasn't faced with this just for an education. But then a world war, rationing and all the hardship that came with it was harsh for all