What the actual fuck? - child maintenance

[Fieryfighter]

Hi, I've had barely any maintenance from my ex since we split, nothing for the past three years, he's had his own businesses etc and got nowhere with the CSA. One year he chucked me a few hundred a couple of times but nothing for ages. He's finally got what I thought was a paid job, according to my kids in the region of 60k, potentially up to 100k with commission. He's sorted a smart house, been going on to the kids about how they'll be able to get stuff/go places.

I then get a lengthy email today, which I'll paste here as I don't even know how to explain properly! I don't know quite how to deal and I'm scared if I do go to the Child maintenance service he'll manage to do as he says at the end of the message and I'll end up with a pittance if all he says us true.

So sorry for the lengthy post!! See below:

"My intention is to structure my employment in the same way that many consultants and trades people do when working for large organisations. I will set up a limited company and the organisation who I will be working for for the next six months will pay that limited company. That limited company will in turn pay me a wage to live on which will be at minimum wage level. So my gross income for the foreseeable future will be £300 per week made up for a 40 hour working week at minimum wage.

The CSA guidance is that at that level and with the new number of nights the boys are likely to be staying when we move I should begin to make a weekly contribution of £37 per week, less any variation I can claim for travel expenses relating to the boys (which will be extensive). I’m advised the variation would take the weekly payments to around the £30 mark. This would rise by about a fiver next year when DD would stop counting as a dependant – but that’s a full 12 months away.

However, I have always said that I will give you what I can afford over and above any legal obligation. For many years that has been random amounts, but I think it would be better for us both if that were to be formulised in to something more regular.

I would like to make this offer:

1. A weekly payment from me of £64. Paid each week via Paypal or BACS to your account on a regular day of your choosing.
2. I pay for everything the kids need. That includes clothes, shoes, uniforms, back to school stuff, music lessons, school trips, sports equpment etc

I further apologise that my employment status isn’t necessarily going to be nice and neat and easy from your point of view because I will be employed by a company of which I’m the sole Director, I’m sure you’d rather that wasn’t the case. But, the offer is honestly very fair and I mean it when I say that if I can afford to pay more on top of the offer then I will. I hope you take it as it’ll be so much better for you than the alternative. If you do not and my payments drop to £30ish a week to you and nothing else, then I’ll just spend the difference on the boys when they are in my town, but I worry this will open up a disparity between us from the boys point of view with me spending lots on them when they visit and you not affording to be able to. That’s not what I want."

I have no advice but what a controlling prick! I'm so glad he's an ex.

Speechless. Who the fuck does he think he is?! Send the email to hmrc so they know his intentions, hopefully they will investigate the twat and at least cause him a whole load of ball ache

Manipulating Control freak

I'm not up to speed on what the CSA regulations are, but I'm sure I've read on here that dividends are counted as income. Most directors do pay themselves minimum wage, then pay themselves lump sum dividends to bump up their pay. It's the most tax efficient way of doing things. Which means that he'll have more income than the minimum wage he's telling you about.

Also, your daughters name is in the original message - if you're concerned about privacy, ask MNHQ to edit your post.

If the job is deemed by hmrc as in effect employed - will depend on the contract details they can recover unpaid employment tax. Many many large companies are actively reducing the number of consultants paid via Ltd co's as hmrc have been focussing on this.

Sadly they are under resources so unless they investigate the employing company it's unlikely they'll pick on your ex.

He's a tax dodging, responsibility dodging wanker imho.

Wow. What A Cunt.

Ps - I'm an accountant & my day to day work deals with a lot of limited companies with one director.

Wow. Is he on glue?

What a horrible email. How often does he have your DC at his place? Is there a regular arrangement?

(btw you might want to get MNHQ to edit as you've left one of your children's names in the post, and also the city where your ex lives so it might be quite identifying)

I would most probably not knee jerk into a reaction.

Does a reaction have to take place?

You have left your DD's name and city in the OP

Fab news if dividends are included as income under CSa rules - def one to check out.

Or report him to hmrc.

He's a total cunt.

If he's got a job, as opposed to being a contractor, he can also expect HMRC to see though his limited company and tax him accordingly. I hope.

I think that email would be good evidence to send to the CSA or whatever they are called.

My exh left 2.5 years ago, I have never received a penny and he is probably abroad so I can't claim. I feel your pain OP.

Do print the email and put it away safe.....

Yes, the dividends limits have changed.

Say nothing except 'thanks for the info, I'll get back to you :)' then take the (very incriminating) email to someone who can advise you - HMRC/CSA etc.

As a pp said, hmrc are looking heavily at false self employed solutions but yes, most likely to come down on the employer.

Well, good of him to give you that in writing - make sure you print it out.

Is this any help? www.clarkewillmott.com/child-maintenance/will-child-maintenance-service-treat-parents-dividends/

He is presumably going to be taking the rest of his money out of the company in the form of dividends.

Yes to everything deathbymascara said.

not tax evasion but it might be a personal service company in which case the ltd co he sets up will be required to pay the taxes on its income as if he were employed.

I guess you need to see what income level gives you that answer on the csa calculator, then decide if you think he'll earn more or less and work out whether you think that's a likely income.

What a prize prick.

Save that email. It may one day be useful.

So he's going to pay for everything the kids need? Bill him for mortgage, electricity, gas, water, food, insurances, and everything else it costs to run your home over and above a studio flat. Or otherwise say "thank you" for the email and go to the CMS with it, as you have that as proof he's going to attempt to defraud your children of their entitlement. You say he never pays maintenance? What do you have to lose?

Ooops I've reported post and asked for identifying details to be removed. Thanks for pointing that out.

He usually has then two nights a week which will change to every other weekend. I've been gritting my teeth hearing all about how amazing dad's new job is from the kids when i am always struggling, bless then they're just excited obviously.

I should have known he'd try something like this. And I know if I get csm / hmrc involved he'll do his utmost to give me as little as humanly possible.

I'm not doing anything at the moment, won't respond for a couple of days, that bit at the end about spending the difference on the kids and he'd end up spending lots more on them than I can makes me want to do bad things!!

I am so sorry, i dont have anything useful to say

He sounds like a right sack of shit..sounds like you are well shot of him

What a twat.
Even if you agree with his offer it's still creating disparity between you and him for the boys. In his "generous" offer he is going to buy everything the boys need. So when he's getting them clothes, shoes, paying for school trips etc it's still making him the "good" parent as you'll constantly be saying ask your Dad or Dad will get you shoes...
I have no idea how HMRC and the CMS would work on a case like this. I'd be inclined to forward his email to both and claim through CMS. Screw him and his controlling options. You're not getting regular payments anyway so you're not losing out.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/self-employed-status-child-maintenance-evasion/

This link is quite interesting, it suggests that whilst you would be entitled to a share of dividend income it might be difficult to pursue. I suggest that you agree something different with him. Rather than having to present receipts for expenditure (or whatever other nonsense he may be suggesting), I think that you should say that you would be delighted to receive the regular amount of minimum income he suggests, topped up by an agreed percentage of any dividend income he may pay himself from time to time and to which you are entitled.

I think just for your own headspace, treat him as an irrelevance. He's not been paying it anyway, he's going out of his way to not pay it, he's an utter bastard. Let the CSA deal with him and your kids will know the truth when they're bigger.