What the actual fuck? - child maintenance

[Fieryfighter]

Hi, I've had barely any maintenance from my ex since we split, nothing for the past three years, he's had his own businesses etc and got nowhere with the CSA. One year he chucked me a few hundred a couple of times but nothing for ages. He's finally got what I thought was a paid job, according to my kids in the region of 60k, potentially up to 100k with commission. He's sorted a smart house, been going on to the kids about how they'll be able to get stuff/go places.

I then get a lengthy email today, which I'll paste here as I don't even know how to explain properly! I don't know quite how to deal and I'm scared if I do go to the Child maintenance service he'll manage to do as he says at the end of the message and I'll end up with a pittance if all he says us true.

So sorry for the lengthy post!! See below:

"My intention is to structure my employment in the same way that many consultants and trades people do when working for large organisations. I will set up a limited company and the organisation who I will be working for for the next six months will pay that limited company. That limited company will in turn pay me a wage to live on which will be at minimum wage level. So my gross income for the foreseeable future will be £300 per week made up for a 40 hour working week at minimum wage.

The CSA guidance is that at that level and with the new number of nights the boys are likely to be staying when we move I should begin to make a weekly contribution of £37 per week, less any variation I can claim for travel expenses relating to the boys (which will be extensive). I’m advised the variation would take the weekly payments to around the £30 mark. This would rise by about a fiver next year when DD would stop counting as a dependant – but that’s a full 12 months away.

However, I have always said that I will give you what I can afford over and above any legal obligation. For many years that has been random amounts, but I think it would be better for us both if that were to be formulised in to something more regular.

I would like to make this offer:

1. A weekly payment from me of £64. Paid each week via Paypal or BACS to your account on a regular day of your choosing.
2. I pay for everything the kids need. That includes clothes, shoes, uniforms, back to school stuff, music lessons, school trips, sports equpment etc

I further apologise that my employment status isn’t necessarily going to be nice and neat and easy from your point of view because I will be employed by a company of which I’m the sole Director, I’m sure you’d rather that wasn’t the case. But, the offer is honestly very fair and I mean it when I say that if I can afford to pay more on top of the offer then I will. I hope you take it as it’ll be so much better for you than the alternative. If you do not and my payments drop to £30ish a week to you and nothing else, then I’ll just spend the difference on the boys when they are in my town, but I worry this will open up a disparity between us from the boys point of view with me spending lots on them when they visit and you not affording to be able to. That’s not what I want."

And the company pays 20% corporation tax on gross profits too.

What he is doing is legal and lots of people do this.
However he is behaving like a d!ck towards you and clearly being very tight with his money.
I would calculate the cost of your children (feeding, clothing, housing etc) and ask him for 50% or proportionate according to your relative wages. That would be fair. £60 a week sounds like peanuts.

Just ignore him completely, will drive him nuts. Go to CSA with that email though and ask them where they think you stand.

The one above is the oldest and easiest in the book to keep maintenance low if you are in the right profession

My daughter's ex ended up self employed for his new father in law. He just paid him the bare minimum while no doubt money changed hands in a different form as he and his new girlfriend certainly did not lead a life style on minimum wage when he drove a range rover.

It is a hard one and through no lack of trying wnet no-where.

I would take the 64 quid a week; Its a start, ensure the other offer of sundries and needs are kept to his word so that cuts down your expenditure.

Not a brilliant answer I know but from experience they just get a good accountant and if they are in cahoots with their employer they will manipulate things to ensure the face value paperwork does not show

That doesn't sound very IR35 compliant to me. HMRC are cracking down on people who pay themselves as a business but are for all intents and purposes full time employees of one employer, paying themselves in a more "tax efficient" way by setting up a limited company. Perhaps HMRC may want a heads up?

I would definitely put in a counter offer.

My exH earns around £19k a year (or did when we separated 8yrs ago) and he pays £190 a month for 2 children.

In your case, because you've never received anything, I would definitely put in a counter offer because you've got nothing to lose. CMS are useless even in straightforward cases so I'd be reluctant to use them as my 1st option.

I would also tell the children the contents of the email. Mine are 9&11 years old and I have stopped sugar coating things to do with their father. I am sick of covering for him and refuse to lie anymore to make him seem better. The difference between slagging him off and telling the truth is huge.

I'm going to suggest you report him to Companies House and BEIS which polices how companies operate if he has had a string of company directorships of dissolved companies. They are called phoenix ccompanies. Yes there are legal ways of structuring companies to a director's advantage, but he's using this to fiddle his tax liabilities and child maintenance payments. I think there is a case to make that he is not fit to be a company director - there are statutory duties which he is not fulfilling. You could start by reporting him to the Registrar at Companies House.

He can't make purchases for his home and claim they are for his company either. HMRC would take a very dim view of that.

You can easily find out about his new company using Companies House's beta service. It is free and you can download his incorporation documents, PSC Register and other documents. The objective would be to show he is unfit to be a company director.

And go to CMS over maintenance from him.

OP - check with companies house to see if he has actually set up a company. It may be his intention to be paid via his own company but his new employer may not want to do that.

Intentions and reality are two different things.

Looking at other websites and listening to those who have gone through a divorce I get the impression that many fathers try to minimize what they pay in Child Maintenance, not because they want to see the child disadvantaged, but because ex-wives refuse access to the children? Guess logic is "why pay for a child you don't see?" A valid point of view I think, but at moment not accepted by the courts.
Finances and contact issues are rightly seen to be totally separate issues by the Courts.
My guess is that there are many many more children who still have contact with the non resident father but where no maintenance is paid to the ex wife, compared to mothers who avoid their children having contact with the father.I can't remember the exact percentages, but they're shockingly high!

I think you could write and possibly not send (at least for a few days) counter offers with list of expenses of
Option A: pay £250/week all inclusive
Option B: x per week + credit card for all kids expenses.
Option C: fuck off and die via CMS/HMRC

I'd write a list of all expenses
Rent
Water
Elec
Etc
Car/travel costs
School trips
Clothes
Medical
Insurance

Kids are 2/3 of household therefore actual costs are x/week.

For the list of expenses I do this with my kids quite often. It's an excellent maths exercise. So they know the real cost of living too. It also arms them a bit against Disney Dad.

Then let him negotiate from there.

There is also an ability to challenge a calculation where the paying parent is diverting their income in order to avoid paying maintenance. Your challenge must be brought in a timely manner so if you believe a calculation is wrong you must request a mandatory reconsideration and variation or appeal and do not let it drift.

From an earlier link. Even if you accept his offer, go through solicitor to make legal - or CMS it is.

He's a lovely piece of work, isn't he?
On the other hand, it's better than you were getting before and if you take it to CSA the contract will be over and he'll be skint again by the time you get anything, and he'll tell the kids you are screwing him over financially.

Accept, and also ask that he puts a % of any company dividends into the kids accounts for college etc. Let the kids know that the new deal with Dad is you feed and house them, he pays for everything else they need.
Give him the bill for everything you already pay and ask for reimbursement.