What the actual fuck? - child maintenance

[Fieryfighter]

Hi, I've had barely any maintenance from my ex since we split, nothing for the past three years, he's had his own businesses etc and got nowhere with the CSA. One year he chucked me a few hundred a couple of times but nothing for ages. He's finally got what I thought was a paid job, according to my kids in the region of 60k, potentially up to 100k with commission. He's sorted a smart house, been going on to the kids about how they'll be able to get stuff/go places.

I then get a lengthy email today, which I'll paste here as I don't even know how to explain properly! I don't know quite how to deal and I'm scared if I do go to the Child maintenance service he'll manage to do as he says at the end of the message and I'll end up with a pittance if all he says us true.

So sorry for the lengthy post!! See below:

"My intention is to structure my employment in the same way that many consultants and trades people do when working for large organisations. I will set up a limited company and the organisation who I will be working for for the next six months will pay that limited company. That limited company will in turn pay me a wage to live on which will be at minimum wage level. So my gross income for the foreseeable future will be £300 per week made up for a 40 hour working week at minimum wage.

The CSA guidance is that at that level and with the new number of nights the boys are likely to be staying when we move I should begin to make a weekly contribution of £37 per week, less any variation I can claim for travel expenses relating to the boys (which will be extensive). I’m advised the variation would take the weekly payments to around the £30 mark. This would rise by about a fiver next year when DD would stop counting as a dependant – but that’s a full 12 months away.

However, I have always said that I will give you what I can afford over and above any legal obligation. For many years that has been random amounts, but I think it would be better for us both if that were to be formulised in to something more regular.

I would like to make this offer:

1. A weekly payment from me of £64. Paid each week via Paypal or BACS to your account on a regular day of your choosing.
2. I pay for everything the kids need. That includes clothes, shoes, uniforms, back to school stuff, music lessons, school trips, sports equpment etc

I further apologise that my employment status isn’t necessarily going to be nice and neat and easy from your point of view because I will be employed by a company of which I’m the sole Director, I’m sure you’d rather that wasn’t the case. But, the offer is honestly very fair and I mean it when I say that if I can afford to pay more on top of the offer then I will. I hope you take it as it’ll be so much better for you than the alternative. If you do not and my payments drop to £30ish a week to you and nothing else, then I’ll just spend the difference on the boys when they are in my town, but I worry this will open up a disparity between us from the boys point of view with me spending lots on them when they visit and you not affording to be able to. That’s not what I want."

If he pays for expenditure through the company then this would be a taxable benefit so he would likely have to pay tax (so he might not do it that way), reckon he will pay his partner though. On the plus side at least he's still in the country and you can pursue it! Much harder if non resident parent goes abroad

Dividends count as income, but can't be proved until first year accounts are filed. Accounts are not due until 9 months after company year end, so it would be 18 months before you could see what was going on. And that's assuming he actually files. Plenty of small limited companies don't bother and are struck off after the first year.

Payments to his partner from his limited company will not be classed as his income. Neither will dividends to her if he makes her a shareholder.

It's shit, and leaves a vile taste in the mouth, but I'd take him up on his offer. It's better than nothing. See if he sticks to his word. If he doesn't then you can go the enforced maintenance route, but it sounds like he knows the game inside and out. I'm sorry

Tell him to read up on IR35.
Inform HMRC who will obligate him to treat the income he receives from his "employer" slash "client" under PAYE.
Inform CSA who will then be able to deduct the maintenance from his earnings.
There's a crackdown on people who are contracting via a Ltd company but are effectively an employee. HMRC is taking it very seriously. He won't get away with it.

*21 months even!

64 poun ds hs offring? bastard

tbh though thy will nd around a years worth to work out an amount and sing as h r4ckons its all new thy prob wont do anything yt

but gt some legal advice on this

in a year i reckon u could go to hmrc and cms and h'll be in the shit

Suggest he takes out a credit card for you then to use solely on the dcs and he pays it monthly....

Can you possibly manage a solicitor to consult? Some act charitably.

What a horrendous man. Can you afford legal advice?
My ex tried to do this but unluckily for him CMS most certainly do take dividends into account t (but only once you tell them to)

Think the points others have made about making partner a shareholder and diving out to her and him may be true.
It's possible to have two classes of shares I think: so he could have the voting shares and therefore control, and she could have non voting shares where he dividends it out only to them as a separate class. He could then also pay his partner to eg post invoices etc and this would probably take him out of the personal service company classification, and would give another method of extracting cash, and an employers NI allowance of £3k.

Hopefully he's had shit advice and this isn't what he's done, but I think it would be possible. I'll have a read and check whether you can see who shareholders etc are or at least what vote classes there are online for free.

You definitely need to have a think - if he's clever and a bastard it's entirely plausible it's the best you'll get. I really hope it won't be, but deffo don't do anything rash.

The CMS are even worse then the CSA at getting maintenance from so called self-employed exes - the rules changed which now benefit them hugely. Definitely don't reply for a long time - that will stress him and possibly lead to a rash move on his behalf. Sadly he will get away with it IME despite what other posters have said - but your children will despise him in the end.

Actually OP if going without means you will struggle financially would you consider option 2?
I understand options both options are shit.

UnicornSparkles1 oh he does know the game exceedingly well and I have no doubt he'll do everything possible to not have anything paid to him more than minimum wage. He already has a string of dissolved companies to his name.

I do like the idea of a counter offer of an amount per week to include all kids expenses, I'm sure I can work out roughly a figure. It's not practical for him to buy all their stuff as they'll be with me most of the time - he doesn't even know their shoe size as I buy EVERYTHING and I'll be the one always at school. Plus yes, he just wants to be bountiful dad buying them bagfuls of clothes.

I doubt he'd consider a credit card but maybe a prepayment one? Although credit card might assuage his controlling tendancies

Ignore my post as you have already answered it!

How old are your kids? I would be inclined to show them the email.

What a nasty piece of work.

I would be tempted to take the £64 per week from him now until after he files his 'company' accounts to HMRC just so you have got some money coming in now. If you go to CMS now he may be able fob them off with payslips (which won't have dividends on them)

I won't be going without as I've not had anything for three years BUT it would make a massive difference, for example my rent is £93 a week so that £64 is a huge chunk towards my rent. Plus if he actually paid for other things it would make a huge difference, I've literally today paid the balance of a school trip (£95) and competions egress (£42) plus the food shop and petrol!

It does sound rather like I might need to suck it up this year and see what I might be able to get done after a year of accounts

I think you're going to have to accept as it's better than you had before but do it with the minimum of communication. Accepting now doesn't mean you can't open a CMS case at the same time ...

So here: www.companysearchesmadesimple.com/search-director/

you can search for any current or past company directorships in his name.

Then on companies house:
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/

You can search for the filing records of said company.

Statements of capital will tell you what classes of shares have been issued. If he's a control freak he'd still want a controlling interesting in the company, and might well not want his partner to have voting shares at all.

It will also list eg the company secretary so you can see if his partner is another director or anything.

Hope that helps.

As yellowox has said, IR35 is they key clause here. If he is a permanent employee and he's trying to minimise his tax and NI contributions and HMRC will be interested. If he's genuinely a consultant then he's possibly ok.

But either way he's a a prick of gargantuan proportions.

BandeauSally the only leverage I have is a good load of texts sent moaning about his wife and trying to get me to sleep with him. I never remotely encouraged and only replies I sent were telling him it was not appropriate. I'd never do anything with them but I have kept them! 😮😮

I would suggest 4 things.

1. Print off that email.
2. Make an appointment with a solicitor.
3. Do not reply to Mr Fuckwit in any way. No email, no text, no comment at hand over. Nothing. Even if he asks, be completely non plussed. Your lack of response will boil his piss.
4. Print off this thread then get it deleted. Just in case.

I would reply - well at least I have it in your own words to ensure the children are aware f what an absolute cunt their father is so well done there'

Why not reply along the lines of
I'm pleased you're making a go of things, but obviously it's not great that you're earning minimum wage.
If you should find yourself in a position pay yourself more, then of course the kids will benefit.
After all, dividends and Director's loans probably attract a higher band of tax, so it would be a shame to pay that rather than your kids.

It's just so depressing that he would do that. Children are expensive and it's so sad that he dumps most of the cost on you.