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Original poster

What the actual fuck? - child maintenance

112 replies

Fieryfighter · 19/05/2017 19:49

Hi, I've had barely any maintenance from my ex since we split, nothing for the past three years, he's had his own businesses etc and got nowhere with the CSA. One year he chucked me a few hundred a couple of times but nothing for ages. He's finally got what I thought was a paid job, according to my kids in the region of 60k, potentially up to 100k with commission. He's sorted a smart house, been going on to the kids about how they'll be able to get stuff/go places.

I then get a lengthy email today, which I'll paste here as I don't even know how to explain properly! I don't know quite how to deal and I'm scared if I do go to the Child maintenance service he'll manage to do as he says at the end of the message and I'll end up with a pittance if all he says us true.

So sorry for the lengthy post!! See below:

"My intention is to structure my employment in the same way that many consultants and trades people do when working for large organisations. I will set up a limited company and the organisation who I will be working for for the next six months will pay that limited company. That limited company will in turn pay me a wage to live on which will be at minimum wage level. So my gross income for the foreseeable future will be £300 per week made up for a 40 hour working week at minimum wage.

The CSA guidance is that at that level and with the new number of nights the boys are likely to be staying when we move I should begin to make a weekly contribution of £37 per week, less any variation I can claim for travel expenses relating to the boys (which will be extensive). I’m advised the variation would take the weekly payments to around the £30 mark. This would rise by about a fiver next year when DD would stop counting as a dependant – but that’s a full 12 months away.

However, I have always said that I will give you what I can afford over and above any legal obligation. For many years that has been random amounts, but I think it would be better for us both if that were to be formulised in to something more regular.

I would like to make this offer:

  1. A weekly payment from me of £64. Paid each week via Paypal or BACS to your account on a regular day of your choosing.
  2. I pay for everything the kids need. That includes clothes, shoes, uniforms, back to school stuff, music lessons, school trips, sports equpment etc

I further apologise that my employment status isn’t necessarily going to be nice and neat and easy from your point of view because I will be employed by a company of which I’m the sole Director, I’m sure you’d rather that wasn’t the case. But, the offer is honestly very fair and I mean it when I say that if I can afford to pay more on top of the offer then I will. I hope you take it as it’ll be so much better for you than the alternative. If you do not and my payments drop to £30ish a week to you and nothing else, then I’ll just spend the difference on the boys when they are in my town, but I worry this will open up a disparity between us from the boys point of view with me spending lots on them when they visit and you not affording to be able to. That’s not what I want."

OP posts:
MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 19/05/2017 20:07

I would be very tempted to play along and say you don't really understand all that so you'll just let the CMS sort it all out.

Then ask the CMS for a variation to take in the dividend income.

I would mention none of the detail to him. Play the "little woman" to play him.

He is a revolting shitbag.

XiCi · 19/05/2017 20:08

He will be paying himself minimum wage but then topping up with dividends. Dividends are counted as income so his salary plus dividends would be what maintenance is assessed on. I imagine though that they would need at least 1 years accounts to base this on so you could have a lengthy wait. I would call the CMS for advice or visit solicitor/CAB

Bluntness100 · 19/05/2017 20:08

Oh that is awful. I know exactly what he's doing. He's paying his salary into a company he has set up then paying himself s reduced wage from that company as a way to avoid paying rhe correct amount of maintenance for his children.

He is then threatening to reduce it if you don't accept it. I hate the word but I shall say it this time, what an absolute and utter cunt.

You need to find out if he is paye, I suspect he is. Inform the csa he is hiding his earnings and provide them with the proof via that email and provide rhe name of his employer if you have it. Rhe email also serves as proof that he is threatening you because he doesn't want you to tell on what he is doing.

Honestly that's just awful.

Bluntness100 · 19/05/2017 20:10

He will be paying himself minimum wage but then topping up with dividends

Not necessarily and I don't think so no, as there will be no shares, but his " company" can pay for his home, expenses etc.

He's just hiding his income to try to fake the 300 as his earnings so he doesn't have to pay maintenance. The company can pay his living expenses.

43percentburnt · 19/05/2017 20:10

You can check on companies house that he has registered as a ltd company.

I'm guessing 'the foreseeable future' means he intends to pay himself dividends at the end of the tax year.

How much do all the clubs etc come to?

FinallyHere · 19/05/2017 20:10

First google response here

sandgrown · 19/05/2017 20:12

A director is an employee of the company so the CMS could issue a deduction from earnings order.

MovingtoParadise · 19/05/2017 20:14

I'd send a short email that said "you've never paid anything towards your children apart from a few hundred quid so I think it's best to leave this to the CMS. There's no need for us to discuss this further".

ginswinger · 19/05/2017 20:14

Nothing for it, you're going to have to make it pay to view the kids. I can't abide men like this and they need to appreciate that children do not live on fresh air.

That or take out a life insurance policy on him and make sure no one ever finds the body. But that's illegal so don't do that.

bunnylove99 · 19/05/2017 20:16

OMG OP, just be glad he is your EX. What a horrible specimen he is, going to such lengths to avoid contributing properly for the upkeep of his own children. Don't stoop to his level in response. Keep your head held high and get yourself to a solicitor for some proper legal advice. Flowers

Funnyonion17 · 19/05/2017 20:16

He's a prick! Tell him to make a sensible offer of contribution or you will go through CSA. He's trying to put you off hmm

My ex actually bragged he will never have to pay me maintenance for two children as he's on DLA. He is on DLA yes, faking it completely and it's one of the reasons I got rid of him. Dunno how parents like this can live with themselves tbh.

SquinkiesRule · 19/05/2017 20:17

The thing is, he'll have a nice house, nice car, and nice holidays on a minimum wage, a lifestyle his "income" couldn't support, HMRC will be very interested.

FlouncingInTheRain · 19/05/2017 20:19

You can't change who he is. If he's a control freak then thats not going to change. £64/ week starting now is better than nothing so isn't it something to accept rather than go down the CSA months of waiting and then the odd payment of a few pounds? I'm not agreeing its great, just sometimes something regular is better than nothing.

Regarding his point 2. Do you have a feel for how much this amount roughly is? I wander if he could be persuaded to provide something like a prepayment card topped up periodically and you could provide a breakdown of where the monies gone (via the DC). Not ideal but it might satisfy the control freak in him whilst giving you the opportunity to get what the DC need with the DC when its needed.

Your child for whom maintenance stops next year, is that because they are 16? Lots of people think that maintenance stops at 16. It stops when the childs depedancy stops i.e. when they leave full time education. I think there have been a few court cases around this.

PurpleMinionMummy · 19/05/2017 20:19

It's a common, legal loophole. Chances are he will draw the profits in dividends. Sit tight for a year or so then ask the CSA to take said dividends into account ;)

Littleelffriend · 19/05/2017 20:20

He can pay his partner as company secretary therefore would not have to pay himself dividends to make up the money.

Rubies12345 · 19/05/2017 20:22

I wonder if he's lying about setting up a limited co. He seems to so badly not want you to go through the CMS.

Do you think he really could be PAYE?

yellowox · 19/05/2017 20:25

Sounds like he is employed but trying to pose as self-employed Google IR35 if he carries on with this tell him you will ring HMRC.

jeaux90 · 19/05/2017 20:26

Yeah I suspect he is lying too. There is a lot of over information in the email. I smell bullshit. I was married to a narcissistic bastard and they really overly embellish on the story. Let the CMS deal.

lelapaletute · 19/05/2017 20:27

Thinks he's very clever doesn't he? But if he was as clever as all that he would never have committed this to writing. I'd take it to CAB or a family lawyer and ask what they make of it.

Original poster
Fieryfighter · 19/05/2017 20:27

It's entirely possible he's lying, he starts the new job very soon so I'm going to do my utmost to see what I can find out. I need a bloody good think and advice, I do however think it's extremely unlikely I'll get anywhere until after his first year of the business when accounts or his tax return can be looked at. He's such a slippery bugger though and more than capable of hiding money.

Paying his partner was indeed one of the things he did. The elder child is his partner's daughter not mine.

OP posts:
lelapaletute · 19/05/2017 20:29

Or to make life simpler go via CMS and show your kids the email. Explain the situation to them dispassionately, but honestly. Why should he get away with being Disney dad when he's fucking you over?

mineofuselessinformation · 19/05/2017 20:34

A couple of things:
If he's drawing dividends, he will have to declare them to the CMS.
You will be able to see the company accounts on Companies House, so you will be able to see how the company is doing.

nigelsbigface · 19/05/2017 20:38

Nothing practical to add but my god, what an utter fucker...

mineofuselessinformation · 19/05/2017 20:38

Oops, posted before I meant to - as for the travel deduction, unless he's travelling hundreds of miles it will make little difference to what he has to pay. (It's just over £1 a week for me).
Can you tell I'm familiar with the situation?
You may, as you say, have to ride it out for a while - but he will still have to cough up in the end.
You haven't said it, but the difference in lifestyle may bother you - your DC will work out in the end who's living the high life and who isn't - and draw their own conclusions.

BandeauSally · 19/05/2017 20:40

Don't respond straight away.

Do you have any leverage here? Is there any chance he is breaking any laws with what he is doing? That email is scripted and he has taken advice so I suspect he has his ass well covered but if there is any chance he hasn't then that's your leverage and I would be making a counter offer. He will expect you to take either option A or option B. Throw him off guard with option C- £150 a week and he doesn't have to pay for anything else wrt to the DC (because you realise the offer to do so will not materialise, right?) this gives you a figure to barter from and hopefully meet somewhere between £150 and £64.

But as I said he has taken advice and it's likely he knows exactly what he can get away with so there is no guarantee this will work. But it's what I would do.