Assisted dying

[LovelyBath77]

Please don't read if this upset you, but I think that it should be up to us when we choose to die, especially with an illness which isn;t going to get better. I don't want to have long term care and give all that money to it which could be left to my children, and definitely don't want to be in a position where you have no choice and considered incapable of making decisions.

I think there needs to be some change on this. AIBU?

But the method of implementation is critical.

It's not about you getting what you want and fuck the people who are involved and have to carry a burden of guilt or potential legal action from relatives.

Obviously doctors don't want anyone to suffer but they don't have to want to kill patients either. It's not black and white.

so what do you propose? Do we just let patients suffer?

I said it's not black and white. No doctor just sits around watching patients suffer

I don't know...

My grandmother is 10 years out of chemo but during the treatment she was adamant that she wanted to die and to let us and that she would rather poison herself quickly than slowly. But she is healthy and happy now at 80...

Lot's of people say they want to die sometimes.

But granted if it is clear that there is no miracle coming and the persons dignity is lost... I think assisted dying is the way to go. There is a great documentary on this.

Currently many doctors have to do just that, not through choice but by law, as they are not allowed to do otherwise.

I am not saying that this law would be simple, but to just say we can't even try to do something to help the people suffering is barbaric. So unless you have a better idea, I'm going to stick with believing that allowing assisted dying is the best option.

NoLotteryWinYet I agree with that priest too! And some clergy (C of E I think) have declared themselves pro-euthanasia, a famous example being Lord Carey (former Archbishop of Canterbury).

In certain circumstances, there is a fine line between "assisted dying" and "relieving pain and suffering" and I think many doctors and priests are reconciled with that.

Pombear yes, Belgium. The worry here is that the initial criteria of adults dying of terminal illnesses (with I think less than 2 yrs to live) has been broadened to include minors and those suffering mental illnesses and the elderly who are basically tired of living. Those are exceptions though I believe.

I'm not arguing that relieving suffering is bad, that's a straw man argument.

I'm arguing that the doctors' role must be seriously considered and that the debate is more nuanced than just 'doctors handing out pills'. There are consequences for professionals and the living must not be forgotten in the rush to help the dead.

Personally I want to be able to choose, and I'd like to be able to document my choice ahead of time with appropriate support and input from professionals. So, for example, I'd like to say that in the event of me getting Alzheimer's then I would like my life to end once I reached a certain stage/ loss of cognition. For conditions where you remain mentally aware and able to communicate wishes then I want to be able to create a document saying that when I say my pain or incapacity is too much then I want the option to end my life.

I understand the concerns about vulnerable people but I believe this could be managed

It's not a strawman argument - it's the very crux of this. For some patients there is no relief for their suffering which is why they would choose death. For these patients the options are suffering or death, and I don't think it's right to deny them the choice as to which they prefer.

yes it it complex - I have never said otherwise. Of course the doctors must be considered, but given there are clearly doctors who would be willing to assist, why is "we must think of the doctors" a reason to deny even considering this law?

StatisticallyChallenged

I believe this organisation provide more information on what you mention: compassionindying.org.uk/

I'm not arguing that the law shouldn't be considered. The OP says "I should be able to decide when I want to die". I am responding to that.

I'm not arguing that the law shouldn't be considered

good - we agree on that then

I'm with the late, great Sir Terry Pratchett on this - "My life, My death, My choice"...

It's the thin end of the wedge to me. I know at the moment people are saying that it's just for terminally ill people etc, etc. But in the Netherlands and Belgium they now euthanise people with mental illnesses. It's far too close to eugenics.

I agree.

It should be up to the person but sadly, without a separation of state and church, it's unlikely.

MD in 'Private Eye' wrote an excellent article on this in the previous issue. It does work well in Oregon and other places.

For all those saying 'better palliative care' - there are some conditions for which there is no relief of suffering. Read 'beyond the high blue air' about five years of constant pain and indignity in a minimally conscious state. Consider the horror of advanced dementia, of choking to death with neurodegenerative diseases, of being starved/dehydrated because that is all that is allowed.

We don't treat animals like this - perhaps because religion states that we shouldn't. Unfortunately we have both a head of state and a prime minister who are religious believers.

one day there will be choice for those who do not wish to suffer. This can be implemented by a pill, a drink, a button to control an intravenous device or advance wishes. I agree that doctors should not have to do it. But you can be damn sure I would do it for myself, or for a loved one if it was their clearly expressed wish.

Absolutely agree, everyone should have the right to make this decision for themselves.

Sorry, but I can't get worked up about how it's going to affect individual doctors when their feeling are placed alongside a person who just wants an end to unbearable suffering.

I'm old enough to remember when the abortions laws were first bought in and GP were allowed to refuse women for abortions if, because of their ethical or religious beliefs, they, the GP that is, were against abortion.

Madness then, that GPs should have had that level of power over another human adult's body. In the same way, assisted dying is not about what others, for whatever reasons, religious or ethical, think should happen to our bodies, but about the affected person, their wants, needs and feelings.

They're introducing a bill into parliament where I live in Aus about this. It intends to give those with terminal illness the right to die if/when they choose.

I am in full support of it, and think it's a great start (I do think its application needs to be extended).

• allowed to refuse to refer women for abortions, that should be

I think it's a no brainer when someone is of sound mind but has a terminal, painful physical condition that they should be allowed to choose to end their life if they feel it has become intolerable.

It's more complicated as people get older, with conditions like Alzheimer's / dementia I think, to know when someone has the sound mind or not to be able to decide.

So everyone should have the right to make a decision for themselves, except doctors who must do whatever you want?

Also it drives me fucking spare when people get on their moral (religious) high horse about the value of human life. Would you say that to someone whose family member was on life support with no real prospect of ever recovering? Would you say that they should take the chance because "life is valuable"? That they should risk being burdened for the rest of their life with the care of someone who likely would never have wanted to have lost their dignity in such a way?

I have experienced this first hand.

So millions thousands of people have to live in pain, misery, indignity and intolerable pain for many years, against their will, all because someone might feel pressured? Just put procedures in place to protect those few people and let the rest get on with it. Sometimes its like we live in Victorian times.

Doctors have nothing to do with this, just let me go buy the drugs from a company and sort it all out myself in my bedroom with people who love me.

It's not really about the doctors though, is it? And it's not about what I want.

As JamieXeed says, do we have to accept that thousands have to suffer to save putting pressure on those doctors who for whatever reason wouldn't accept this.

If doctors are not happy dealing with these situations then, surely a way can be found to bypass those doctors who don't want to be put in that position.

People are allowed, quite rightly, to terminate pregnancies that would result in a baby that will suffer terribly or not live beyond a few hours. We are encouraged, too much so sometimes imo, to end an animals life in certain circumstances, yet a human has to suffer and often watch those around them suffer just as much.

I think it's shocking that it's not legal. My father is terrified of being in situation where he can't physically end his own life. I've promised him I'll help if it comes to it, fuck the consequences.