Assisted dying

[LovelyBath77]

Please don't read if this upset you, but I think that it should be up to us when we choose to die, especially with an illness which isn;t going to get better. I don't want to have long term care and give all that money to it which could be left to my children, and definitely don't want to be in a position where you have no choice and considered incapable of making decisions.

I think there needs to be some change on this. AIBU?

u2 I'm wondering though if the focus for mh shouldn't be on funding more research to improve treatment because I saw a political broadcast that said mh gets a tiny amount of research funding. We don't accept that cancers aren't curable and are always looking for treatments. Enabling assisted suicide for mentally ill people seems to be embracing an NHS failure to me - but I'd defer to people like your dh and my long run mentally ill family members about what they think is best if it came to a vote on this issue.

We dont let our pets live in pain and have a long drawn out death so why do we allow people to go through the worst pain at the end of life. I 100% agree we should be allowed to end our own lives when we want.

Roomster why should someone with a severe mental illness be forced to live in pain in case a treatment is found?

If it's all about autonomy and not suffering, why is mental health different to physical?

I think we should focus on better palliative care instead. i still think that this would be the start of a slippery slope and some people would be put under pressure, the safeguards being insufficient.

I think the concern would be with severe MH that the person might not be considered in a place to choose as they might be affected / suicidal due to the MH. So that would be difficult.

And it would be difficult for those with a combination of MH and physical health, as the two are so intwined and go together, at times.

Also the problem with MH-related assisted dying is that despair and belief that a situation can never improve to a level where life is worth living can be a symptom rather than a realistic assessment. There are millions of people out there living perfectly satisfactory lives who can look back on a time when they were completely convinced that their lives could never offer anything beyond misery. So you'd need much more medical intervention to clear the bar.

Well I suppose it could be an idea, as the docs did with me, to do things like advance directives for care. For example things like which drugs help you, where you want to be (at home for example) and then they can help if things get worse. I can start refusing treatment when MH gets worse which can be a problem as they can't give treatment without consent) it's all very complicated.

Roomster why should someone with a severe mental illness be forced to live in pain in case a treatment is found?

I didn't say that they should be forced to live in pain in case a treatment is found. I was just pointing out that it is not necessarily the case that they will never get better as is the case with someone with terminal cancer for example.

Today 12:14 ForalltheSaints

I think we should focus on better palliative care instead. i still think that this would be the start of a slippery slope and some people would be put under pressure, the safeguards being insufficient.

It doesn't matter how good palliative care is, people will still want out prior to becoming a palliative patient. Dying is an unpleasant and often drawn out process, no amount of good palliative care can change that. Some types of dementia can render the person completely helpless, bedridden and unable to communicate for years before they die. I have been caring for someone for nine years who is in end stage dementia.

Many people do not want that for themselves and why should they be forced to remain in that state?

I'm autistic and therefore socially disabled. People and my environment are a constant threat to me and your idea of good palliative care would be akin to torture in my world. I absolutely intend to head off to Dignitas once I've decided enough is enough. I'll use my private pension lump sum to pay for it.

We put our dogs to sleep when there is no hope to help end their suffering... Sick and elderly humans aren't afforded the same dignity and respect. Backwards.

Wvhen my dad was dying of cancer, on a morphine driver for pain, my mother said 'they wouldn't put a dog through this'.

I sit with the dying as part of my job. Some fight with ever fibre of their being not to die because they are frightened of what comes next or the process of dying or just don't want to go. We live in a society that is profoundly fearful of death and in a society where we want to control everything in our lives. Autonomy is the driving ethical force. The narrative unfolds that the individual has the right to do what The individual wants to do and society has a duty to provide that for them and if other people get hurt in the process then that doesn't matter because ultimately individualism and autonomy are all that matters.

Medical ethics is concerned with the individual but it is also concerned with society.

Can only say I do hope this becomes possible in the next few years, I want to go when I am ready both for health and financial (mine and the countries) reasons. The UK cannot afford/have the staff/accommodation to give quality care to those that need it and it will get worse we must have a system that allows someone to choose their own end and I would go so far as to say I might be quite well when I choose to go i.e. in advance of the misery of failing mental and physical health.

my dad recently had a major cardiac arrest - his heart was stopped for 15 minutes. If he'd had an advanced directive in place, he'd have put DNR in those circumstances as we were told he had a high risk of brain damage and that wouldn't have been an acceptable risk to him.

As it is, he fought a hell of a fight over the next 2 days in an induced coma, he came round and he has some slight short term memory problems, that's all, he's a very lucky man, and we're lucky he didn't already have a living will etc in place.

These advanced directives have a good chance that people may go too soon when there is still some good quality of life left for them to have. I know that we all see the other side when we feel things have gone on too long but there are two sides, I can see huge problems in when these would be implemented from a practical perspective.

thegreen the assisted dying don't want society to do anything other than make the drug that they need available to them. They do the rest. There are no special arrangements or help that's required. As it stands, the drug remains impossible to obtain. People have been travelling to Mexico to buy it, but you still need to find someone to sell it to you and smuggle it back home. You can no longer find it over the internet. It's not a rare or expensive drug, it's just that society doesn't like people painlessly doing away with themselves for some reason.

What about a benzo overdose? I plan to stockpile these in the future.

Benzos won't kill you. They're not potent enough. They may depress your breathing to levels which may cause brain damage though.

I think they'll pull the thread if we start talking about methods mind.

Good article on this topic in the economist recently. Also a comment from Hospice UK I noticed saying they are going to work more with the NHS on improving people's choices in end of life care- and also that it will help the NHS if people are in hospice or having hospice care at home- most people don;t want to be in hospital anyway and if will free up beds. And that what often happens is that family ask for everything the docs can do- on final stages which leads to last ditch invasive attempts, which the person may never have wanted but they don't discuss it enough in advance, with family.

OK yes, maybe best stop with methods.

I used to work in care, and often helped with end of life patients and found it horribly upsetting. There is a myth that painkillers help you on your way and it's calm but it often isn't and I went home in tears one shift after hearing a lady screaming in pain and confusion. I do think we treat pets better, but there is such a huge grey area where people would feel pressured to go on their way that I don't honestly know how we could ever make it safe enough.
Having watched a few programmes about Dignitas, I found that way of dying hugely distressing. It was so cold and undignified, and your relatives are left in a strange country with nothing but that memory for the rest of their lives and your ashes in an urn.

I read the book Late Fragments by Kate Gross, a mother who died of cancer, and she planned her death very to-the point and said it freaked out the docs how kind of matter of fact she was. She died at home on Christmas morning. It was a lovely book. I think it gave her some control over things in a way.