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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Assisted dying

323 replies

LovelyBath77 · 19/05/2017 09:30

Please don't read if this upset you, but I think that it should be up to us when we choose to die, especially with an illness which isn;t going to get better. I don't want to have long term care and give all that money to it which could be left to my children, and definitely don't want to be in a position where you have no choice and considered incapable of making decisions.

I think there needs to be some change on this. AIBU?

OP posts:
yellowfrog · 19/05/2017 11:24

It's not a fair burden to put on people who are already in a stressful job.

The doctors at Dignitas seem to cope with it

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 19/05/2017 11:25

There should be a choice.

Watching loved ones die of Parkinson's or dementia is bad.
I don't want to put my DCs through this. I want to be able to go while I'm still me and I want them to remember me the way I am, not the empty shell many illnesses leave.

isletsoffrangipane · 19/05/2017 11:25

The doctors at Dignitas seem to cope with it

They choose to work there. Many more doctors choose not to.

VikingVolva · 19/05/2017 11:26

"If it were an ideal world where pain was well managed, there was no ageism or disablism, mental health provision was sufficient and all relatives were benevolent, then I would support it for those who still chose it."

I think this is important.

I would not want to be treated by a doctor who killed patients, even if done so in a system with legal safeguards. I don't think many doctors want to euthanise patients by deliberate act.

(I am rather assuming that the old fashioned escalation of certain pain meds to the point of risk of death will continue to be quietly practiced, though of course that can only happen when the prescriber/administrator is sure that everyone else around the person agrees, with a level of certainly that outweighs a catastrophic career-ending conviction if they misjudged it)

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 19/05/2017 11:26

It should not be about the family objecting, Frangipane.

It's my body, my decision.

NoLotteryWinYet · 19/05/2017 11:26

slurry I'm not a practicing RC but I was at a talk once of a Catholic priest who's brother had killed himself, and the priest clearly felt that God would understand that some people just couldn't suffer anymore.

UnmentionedElephantDildo · 19/05/2017 11:27

"We'd all sleep safer knowing we had this option."

Speak for yourself. I find the idea of any form of state-sanctioned killing the stuff of nightmares.

isletsoffrangipane · 19/05/2017 11:27

If it's your body, you get rid of it. Don't force a professional to do it for you and live with the consequences.

I really dislike this expectation that doctors should kill patients just because they're asked.

DJBaggySmalls · 19/05/2017 11:28

People act like its impossible to manage assisted dying; but its already in place all over the world.
No one is under pressure to kill themselves. Thats a myth and its unfair to spread it. And you dont just walk into a clinic and ask for a tablet.

IDK what MN rules are so wont post a link, but there is info online about countries that have legal suicide and assisted dying. Its legal in 6 US States and several EU countries.

Roomster101 · 19/05/2017 11:28

100% agree we should have assisted dying. My parents are terrified of getting dementia, it ruined my lovely GM's last years and she was an aggressive travesty of herself by the end. We'd all sleep safer knowing we had this option.

It wouldn't up to relatives though. It would only be an option for those who were capable of informed consent which wouldn't necessarily apply to those with dementia.

yellowfrog · 19/05/2017 11:30

They choose to work there. Many more doctors choose not to.

If it became law here, there would be a similar setup as Dignitas, so doctors would have the choice.

As to doctors euthanizing patients - it is not how it works. At Dignitas the person must take the medication themselves. The doctor is there to provide it.

As to trust in doctors, a survey a couple of years ago showed that trust in doctors would be increased if assisted dying were made legal (www.dignityindying.org.uk/news/patients-trust-doctors-assisted-dying/). I would certainly be happier knowing that my doctor could help me at the end if that what what I chose

Pombearsandnaiceham · 19/05/2017 11:31

Like previous posters, I completely agree that it's a very complex topic, but personally, I am in favour of assisted dying.

If I could make a parallel between assisted dying and anything else, perhaps it could be compared to the rights given to people considering abortion. My stance on abortion is pro choice, and my stance on assisted dying is also pro choice.

Slurry if you don't mind me asking, whereabouts do you live at the moment? Is it somewhere like the Netherlands or Belgium? They have very progressive views on assisted dying in my opinion, which I support, although I do understand why these views may not be supported by everyone.

NoLotteryWinYet · 19/05/2017 11:32

I know it wouldn't be up to relatives. I suppose I was hoping that we'd be taken into a room and diagnosed with dementia and could make decisions before we got to the bashing people with sticks stage.

On the whole though, we can have a free vote on ripping up foxes, why can't we have a free vote on euthanasia?

Roomster101 · 19/05/2017 11:33

If it's your body, you get rid of it. Don't force a professional to do it for you and live with the consequences.

Firstly, there is no way a professional will be "forced" to do it.Hmm Secondly, the reason that people have gone to court over this is because the unable to "get rid" of their body without assistance often because they are paralysed. That is the whole point.

yellowfrog · 19/05/2017 11:34

A question for those who oppose this. What do you propose for the people who are dying in extreme pain, for whom palliative care is not helping, who are mentally capable, but physically incapable of ending their life by more, shall we traditional, methods. Do we just let them suffer?

squishysquirmy · 19/05/2017 11:40

For people who are in considerable pain, and who genuinely want it, it seems like a humane thing. My concern is that some people would opt for it for financial reasons, or even worse, feel pressured into the decision. I worry that eventually, not opting for it could be seen as the "selfish" option. Most children would rather have a few extra years with their parents than inheritance money!

"I don't want to have long term care and give all that money to it which could be left to my children..." that's the side of it that worries me. Assisted dying to escape a painful, debilitating condition early - fine. Assisted dying to protect an inheritance - no!

isletsoffrangipane · 19/05/2017 11:43

I would certainly be happier knowing that my doctor could help me at the end if that what what I chose

But you said they'd go to a clinic, so it wouldn't be your doctor?

PeaFaceMcgee · 19/05/2017 11:45

This is how it should be, in my opinion. Katia tells the story of her father's decision on Iain Lee's TalkRadio show. Beautifully done:-

talkradio.co.uk/highlights/late-nights-iain-lee-bonus-podcast-katias-dad-wednesday-may-18-1605191221

yellowfrog · 19/05/2017 11:45

squishysquirmy - I think at Dignitas they address this by interviewing the person on their own (more than once) and asking quite probing questions. It is certainly an important issue that would need to be thought through if the law were introduced here. In places where it's legal, the take-up is not actually that high, which would suggest that the system isn't getting abused

yellowfrog · 19/05/2017 11:46

But you said they'd go to a clinic, so it wouldn't be your doctor?

well, I'm assuming my doctor would be the one to refer me there.

BarbarianMum · 19/05/2017 11:47

I find it strange that there is so much worry about people being "pressured into it". Most people are physically able to commit suicide, so this pressuring should be happening now. Where's the evidence showing this is the case, or the scale of the problem?

isletsoffrangipane · 19/05/2017 11:48

So doctors who don't work in the clinic will be expected to refer their patients on to die. A lot of doctors would not be especially happy about that and it does contradict your statement that there will be some choice for professionals.

NoLotteryWinYet · 19/05/2017 11:50

Pressure on the vulnerable is has to be resisted, but if people do feel their time is up and they're not enjoying themselves anymore, that's not necessarily a problem by itself. No system is perfect but I agree, abortion is legal due to us having sovereignty over our own bodies, it doesn't make sense that we can't also make informed choices about our endings.

yellowfrog · 19/05/2017 11:54

isletsoffrangipane

Given it's not yet the law here, forgive me for not knowing exactly how it would be implemented. Maybe doctors will have the choice to refer, and you'd need to see one who did if yours didn't (as with pharmacists who won't dispense the morning-after pill).

Also, how about you answer my question above?

"A question for those who oppose this. What do you propose for the people who are dying in extreme pain, for whom palliative care is not helping, who are mentally capable, but physically incapable of ending their life by more, shall we traditional, methods. Do we just let them suffer?"

pombal · 19/05/2017 11:55

Medical staff should be able to opt out of providing this if it ever becomes legal.
I think it's a lot to ask of them.