To consider the Conservatives' manifesto pretty decent on the whole?

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Pretty decent in terms in principles, that is ... as so often with manifestos it's too thin on costings

Main points here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39960311

Full version here: www.conservatives.com/manifesto

This undermines the Tories’ reputation for financial competence. Imposing a cap on social care costs will significantly increase the costs of social care, probably by a matter of billions per year over the next decade.

Possibly, but also, some people with substantial assets will insure themselves instead (as they do in the US). So effects could be unclear for some time.

Last week Jeremy Hunt, the health secretary, said explicitly that the Tories were dropping plans for a cap on the social care costs that people would have to pay.

LOL!!!!

This is strong and stable right? I mean I'm just checking this isnt chaos LMFAO!!!

This is what Jeremy Corbyn said about the Tory U-turn at the Labour event in Hull.

A Tory u-turn on social care would be extremely welcome because I want this country to face up to its responsibilities to those who need care, either frail elderly, those with special needs, those with severe disabilities, those with learning difficulties.

And our proposals are that we will refund social care, putting emergency money into it, so that a million people waiting for social care don’t wait. And we won’t get involved in this horrible policy that the Tories have put forward which will actually damage families and family income, damage people, break up relationships, all kinds of horrible things will happen from this very dangerously ill-thought out social care policy.

And if George Osborne is at last doing something useful in his life of supporting proper funding for social care, then thank you George for that. And I urge him to read very carefully our manifesto says on social care.

Can I just put in that today is the last day for registering to vote?

No matter who you support, please, please make sure your voice will count

Can I just put in that today is the last day for registering to vote?

No matter who you support, please, please make sure your voice will count

^^ This

Good call Puzzledandpissedoff

hard choices about big costs The Tories backtrack as soon as it looks as if it will cost them votes? What's strong or stable about that?!

i didn't say it was strong and stable - they should've forseen this market problem with private insurance - Dilnot's stuff was presumably widely available and an obvious issue.

It is responsive though.

Corbyn: A Tory u-turn on social care would be extremely welcome ...

Sounds like he's had some good advice on what to say - to some, it might even appear to be further evidence that he's a "principled politician"

What a shame there's so much which suggests he's anything but ...

NoLottery In terms of being 'responsive', it's the potential loss of Tory votes that she is 'responsive' to. Lots of scared Tories, campaign managers etc. She isn't standing up for a policy she believes in. And in any case, a key bit was the paying for social care (three times as many people get that) if you have a property. Since 75% of over 65s own property, that will still affect them.

So TM has neutralised Labour's attack on the proposal.
One day of red faces is nothing in the scheme of things.

I like the proposal, I concede that it makes much more sense with a cap too - but only if the cap is v v large (eg £150k +)

And if it's in the manifesto, the HoL can't thwart it as easily.

I'm interested in how JC et al are going try to rip the proposal to bits now.... !

Who cares about why they did anything - I really only care about the policies, and whether I think they can execute those policies based on the expertise they have available.

May has listened to sensible criticism - I'm sure it's as she's made a brave choice that looked like being slightly too brave, yes, but we've got a better policy here.

And who knows, if fewer people try and dodge social care taxes because of a cap and an asset floor, that looks reasonable to me.

some facts - in the face of the SJW hysteria
there are 850,000 people with dementia in the UK, with numbers set to rise to over 1 million by 2025. This will soar to 2 million by 2051. 225,000 will develop dementia this year, that's one every three minutes. 1 in 6 people over the age of 80 have dementia.
so out the total population there are currently less than one million with diagnosed dementia. 5 out of 6 people over 80 do not have dementia.
So the total number currently is less than a million out of which many will not have to pay any so-called 'dementia tax' unless they own a property worth more than £100K.
AAAAArgh - it was not a u-turn (as described by the libdems/labour. the 'independent' (and of course the guardian)) but a clarification - since when has the manifesto gone into explicit details - that is what a green paper and proper debate comes down to.
I am still voting conservative so this does not change anything for me as I prefer proper control of costs to labours uncosted pie in the sky.

expertise David Davis and Liam Fox as Brexit negotiators. Hahahahah.

It's not limited to dementia sufferers though Ollie.

She's a liar yet everyone still thinks she's great. She denies that she's 'listened' and changed her plans so why are you all suggesting she has? Are you admitting that she's actually lying but that's okay?

On another thread about a week ago i said that social care will become fully privatised. Now the cap allows people to at least have an amount to aim for when M at decides to announce that cap.whatever the cap may be it may not be enough! None can say how long you will need care for or what type of care I.e. will you need 2 hours a day (4 half hour visits) will you need much more? If you are bed bound you will need 2carers at twice the price. If you are in the later stages of dementia or terminal you will need care 24 7. That will cost about £130000 or more at today's cost for 1 carer. It could be 2 years or 15 years care. The councils cannot provide the care in peoples home.now. they don't even have enough trained carers. They will not be able to afford to wait for the money for care they gave to provide and they will not afford any deficit. Eventually the system of getting out insurance to cover costs will be extended as a Tory government systematically withdraws funds to cost cut. So the cap will be high to be sustainable.

Why is nobody asking for costings? Half if this board couldn't shut up about costings when discussing labour's manifesto.

she's made a brave choice that looked like being slightly too brave, yes, but we've got a better policy here

Even more importantly, the thorny issue of social care is being addressed without the pretence that throwing taxpayers' money at it is the answer to everything

We might admire May or we might not, but shouldn't we at least give her credit for being prepared to do something about this rather than just kicking it down the road?

ollie- is that a joke? The conservative manifesto is an unvisited shambles!

*uncosted

olliegarchy99 Given that the number of those in nursing homes is pretty static (under 300,000?), many of those with dementia are in their own homes. The government estimates that dementia costs 26 billion a year (report last year). Are social care costs not likely to be a sizeable proportion of this? If you own a home, but are under the income rules, you don't have to pay those bills. But now you do. I'd imagine that was still a bit frightening.

yes - it gives lie to the theory that she is just after as big a majority as she can get her paws on. I don't like May personally, I don't think she's the sort of person I'd like to have a cup of tea with, but this is resolutely sensible politics.

Once people start to buy Insurance policies just in case they need it care cists will go up. Care agencies already have a two tier payment band. Council clients, those who cannot afford care and have their care farmed out to agencies will have a different hourly rate to private clients who have to pay for their care (at the mo about £22 an hour for 1 carer) lots of agencies refuse now to take council clients, they only want the private clients. My dds agency she works for does precisely that, one of many. So any cap put on will drive up the cost of care. There will be vast amounts of money made by insurance companies, care agencies and businesses that will open up huge agencies to milk the market as much as possible preying on sick and disabled not neccessarily older people. All of them driven by greed and capitalism. This is one of 3 predictions I made and unfortunately, though the idea of private insurance sounds good and may be the only solution( which I don't believe) it is nothing but a money grabbing exercise by a tory party pandering to the big business voters. Trouble is we are ALL eventually going to be scuppered by it.

The NHS will go the same way with only A and E being free. But you could vote for anyone other than Tory and it might not happen!

I'd agree, 'throwing taxpayers money at it' is not the answer. I'd like to know proper costings, an intelligent analysis of what structural changes were needed and some engagement with healthcare professionals on the front line as to potential solutions for all members of society.

What I wouldn't like is the ONLY issue to be addressed is cost. Take responsibility for your care and pay for it yourself. errrr... That's it. Just trust me. Strong and Stable etc.