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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To consider the Conservatives' manifesto pretty decent on the whole?

909 replies

Puzzledandpissedoff · 18/05/2017 15:45

Pretty decent in terms in principles, that is ... as so often with manifestos it's too thin on costings

Main points here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39960311

Full version here: www.conservatives.com/manifesto

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/05/2017 12:24

I'm also not naive enough to ignore that the "cap" is probably a reaction to the outcry / poll changes - selfish as some of them are - but apart from the usual political opportunism it's hard to see how the "yah boo, U TURN!!! " can be justified

Isn't listening and then amending something a sensible thing to do, if it's felt that it might have been unwise or gone too far?

OP posts:
NoLotteryWinYet · 22/05/2017 12:30

wahooo! Sensible policy. Wonder why they didn't get on the phone to Dilnot before announcing the policy but at least they have improved it!

sostenueto, i'm happy to let the people that can pay, pay, as long as it is somewhat fair, if wealthy people want to buy insurance, that's something else tax payers don't have to pay for. Perhaps then we can get to a place where care actually improves and carers have decent job contracts and conditions.

citroenpresse · 22/05/2017 12:32

If you read the Conservative manifesto, which loudly trumpets how the 100k floor is more equitable than the Dilnot suggestion of a cap, it is a HUGE U-turn.

Biker47 · 22/05/2017 12:34

Isn't listening and then amending something a sensible thing to do, if it's felt that it might have been unwise or gone too far?

This ^

Laughed when people were complaining about the u-turn on national insurance contributions, the ones complaining about the u-turn were the same ones complaining about the initial proposal. It's fucking childish.

What are the left going to complain about next though, the cap will probably be to low for them now, and people with million pound houses will end up being able to keep obscene ammounts of equity after only paying a fraction of what their care costs, and that'll not "be fair".

citroenpresse · 22/05/2017 12:35

Making-it-up-as-you-go-along policy because of a wobble at the polls. So much for strong and stable. A cap IS better....yet another nicked Labour approach.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 22/05/2017 12:41

Making-it-up-as-you-go-along policy because of a wobble at the polls.

Or they would say because they have 'listened to the public'.

Truth is it will work for them. People were maybe not voting for them because of it. Not voting elsewhere.

Labour have backtracked on stuff too since the manifesto. Only ones that haven't are LibDems.

Labour don't know what they are going to do about benefits freeze. Have started to backtrack on nationalising the National Grid.

Sostenueto · 22/05/2017 12:41

Totally agree Citroen. Can t

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/05/2017 12:43

the ones complaining about the u-turn were the same ones complaining about the initial proposal. It's fucking childish

Quite Smile

A cap IS better....yet another nicked Labour approach

Well yes, but if it's a good idea, isn't it better that someone has a chance to implement it - since it's unlikely that Labour will be able to?

OP posts:
Biker47 · 22/05/2017 12:45

A cap IS better....yet another nicked Labour approach.

A cap was already planned to come into force in 2020 before this change was proposed ;)

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 22/05/2017 12:45

the ones complaining about the u-turn were the same ones complaining about the initial proposal. It's fucking childish

It does seem that way.

It also seems especially on SM that they shout about fairness and the elite and the haves and have nots, then moan when something like this comes out and suddenly change their tune.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/05/2017 12:49

Truth is it will work for them. People were maybe not voting for them because of it. Not voting elsewhere

I agree, but then for the "conservative with a small c's" there really isn't anywhere else to go, is there? After all, the polls show that voting Labour isn't an option for the majority, and a vote for the also-rans will just split the anti-Conservative vote and still allow them to win

Not voting at all is indeed as possibility, but I really hope there isn't too much of that ...

OP posts:
Charmageddon · 22/05/2017 12:50

If there is to be a cap, then I'd like to see the cap set at above the average that people pay when requiring long term care - I think I read somewhere it was £150k average (though I may well be wrong!).
Anything less than £100k as a cap is not enough.

The proposal in the manifesto was a good one, and the best & most fair that there has been to date from any of the parties.

So, if they said 'all assets including house; floor of £100k and cap on total costs at £200k' that is a vast improvement on now.

For example, a £250k house would see you leave min of £100k; a £500k house would see you leave min of £250k; a £750k house, min of £550k and so on.

NoLotteryWinYet · 22/05/2017 12:51

why shouldn't it work for them? A floor so min assets are guaranteed and a cap so an insurance market for the wealthy can be created is sensible as it means the burden on the state should be as small as possible.

The cap may even mean some wealthier people don't look at ways to avoid tax but buy insurance instead.

citroenpresse · 22/05/2017 12:54

Piglet Benefits freeze? What shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry said is “I don’t think we can reverse it entirely. We shouldn’t be promising things we can’t afford.” What's wrong with that?

Sostenueto · 22/05/2017 12:54

Blooming internet signal went halfway through post. I can't believe the amount of threats to the voters May was slinging out! Talk about scaremongering. The polls must really be closing, think she has made a real booboo with the social care blunder. Threats like June 19th beginning of brexit negotiations and ' no new government can be ready in time and every vote for other parties will put JC into No 10 etc. Personal attacks on JC and Diane Abbot, actually didn't go down well there was an intake of breathe from the audience probably because they were below the belt. No, even if I didn't like JC or his policies ( I only vote on policies not appearance) I would vote for him rather than May. And don't worry those who voted for remain, May will come back with no deal and expect a new ref. Within 2 years. Those that voted to leave this lady is not Thatcher, her motto is ' This lady will turn at the slightest resistance. Expect a really bad deal on brexit.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 22/05/2017 12:55

I agree, but then for the "conservative with a small c's" there really isn't anywhere else to go, is there?

Which is why those that were not going to vote because of this policy but always have voted Conservative, I have a feeling will go and vote Tory anyway when push came to shove.

Sostenueto · 22/05/2017 12:59

I'm not complaining about the cap. I said long ago there should be a cap if anyone cares to actually read my posts. I a

PortiaCastis · 22/05/2017 13:00

Only nine points difference in the polls today

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2017-general-election-poll-tracker-10266121

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 22/05/2017 13:00

The polls must really be closing

It is 9 points which is still a massive majority. Another poll gives her 12 points.

The polls always close at a certain point and this is the same difference as there was in 1983 with Foot v Thatcher. We all know how that ended.

It does however seem that there are some Corbynites that have been going on for months about how the polls are lying, they are made up, an MSM conspiracy, yet now they are closing it seems they are to be believed.

Funny that.

Sostenueto · 22/05/2017 13:01

I'm just gloating about the inadequacies of the Tory party and their weak and unstable leader!

Two4One2017 · 22/05/2017 13:05

The important thing is how voters react to it and for most who wouldn't vote for Corbyn but were upset by this proposal this change might be enough to reassure them. Let's see. It's not as if there are many alternatives if you were already planning to vote Tory - UKIP only standing in c200 seats, LD - v different Brexit approach so Leavers won't go there either. Older people will be more opinionated about Corbyn and his IRA issues as they lived through the bombings and also the 70s when the IMF had to bail us out - younger voters see free tuition fees.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 22/05/2017 13:05

Here is the poll which shows the movement since the election was called.

The difference is nearly back to where they were when they started.

To consider the Conservatives' manifesto pretty decent on the whole?
NoLotteryWinYet · 22/05/2017 13:07

i can't be alone in having the tories slightly gone up in my estimation for trying to make some hard choices about big costs.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 22/05/2017 13:07

May's social care U-turn - Verdict

No one can say anymore that this election is boring. This was a remarkable announcement, because there is no precedent in recent years for a party having to re-write a major manifesto so completely and so quickly during an election campaign.

The best that can be said for May’s move is that, if you are going to have to perform a policy U-turn, it is best to get it over and done with quickly. A day’s embarrassment is well worth putting up with if it results in policy on a major issue ending up in a place where it is defensible and not haemorrhaging votes, which is what the social care policy seemed to be doing. The Tories abandoned one of the biggest items in their budget earlier this year (the increase in national insurance for the self-employed) and, although that led to dire headlines on the day, it did not destroy the Conservative lead over Labour on the issue of economic competence.

It is also worth remembering that dramatic campaign moments (eg, Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy) often have less impact on an election result than observes assume at the time.

That said, it has been an awful morning for May - possibly her worst as prime minister. During the Q&A after her speech she came close to losing her composure, and the footage of her, voice rising, claiming “nothing has changed” (as she confirmed that it has) was an image consultant’s nightmare.

In particularly, she has inflicted serious damage on the “May brand” in three ways.

1 - May does not look so “strong and stable” anymore. Until the manifesto came out, “strong and stable leadership” was almost the entire Conservative campaign. Even today, May was pushing this message strongly. (See 10.34am.) Now it looks far less plausible.

2 - This undermines the Tories’ reputation for financial competence. Imposing a cap on social care costs will significantly increase the costs of social care, probably by a matter of billions per year over the next decade. But we don’t know by how much, because the Tories never gave any indication of how much their plans were expected to raise when they announced them last week, and they are not giving any clue as to what level the cap will be imposed at. The Labour party would be crucified if made policy in such a costings vacuum.

3 - May was remarkably dishonest when she tried to defend her U-turn. After calling an election when she said she wouldn’t, May’s claim to be a straightforward and reliable politician was open to challenge, but today she waded fully into Pinocchio territory. She claimed this morning that she was only having to clarify her position because Labour and Jeremy Corbyn have been making “fake claims” about the manifesto. But this is simply not true; the Labour claims about a “dementia tax” have been based on a tendentious but accurate assumption about what the plans announced last week would mean. (May seemed to imply that a cap on social care costs was implied in what the manifesto said last week, if not stated explicitly, but this is not true; the manifesto said the plans for a floor not a cap on costs - see 11.57am - were “more equitable, within and across the generations, than the proposals following the Dilnot report [Dilnot proposed a cap], which mostly benefited a small number of wealthier people.) May is right to say her manifesto plans would not mean people losing their home while they are alive, and in her head she may be using this to justify her claim that her plans were being misrepresented. But Labour has not been saying people would lose their homes while still alive. - The Guardian

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 22/05/2017 13:07

Let's see. It's not as if there are many alternatives if you were already planning to vote Tory

Yep. This is the point.

It has also made the Tories the news again and Labours campaign of university fees and getting the young to register has been pushed down.