I don't understand why some children are 'shielded' from the idea of puberty

[MissQueueQ]

My child is 10 and last week the class teacher gave them a chat about puberty. Boys were split from girls. Periods weren't mentioned. Just very minor stuff such as "you may notice a bit of hair growing in places where it doesn't normally"; "your chest might start to change shape" etc. Parents were invited to attend.

Afterwards, a few of the mums (not sure about the dads as they were away in the boys' class) were giggling to each other and a few others were saying how they thought it was about time they had 'the changing talk' with their daughters later.

I was actually quite shocked at how the talk was delivered and received. I suppose the teacher doesn't have any say in the content, so I'm not blaming her or anything. But these children are 10-11 and some still hadn't been told by their parents about puberty? And menstruation wasn't mentioned?? I asked afterwards when that would be discussed with the children and was told around primary 7. So when they're 11-12 year old.

I'm just pretty shocked that nothing has changed since when i was at school. Why haven't all parents already spoken to their kids about puberty by this age? In my daughter's class, i know for sure one girl began her period last year, and a fair few have began to develop in their chests (my daughter included).

I told a few of the mums afterwards that i didn't understand why they were worrying about having a talk with the daughters later. Hadn't they already been asking questions? A few awkward replies with a few trying to laugh it off. "Oh yes, but i just tell her we'll chat about it when she's older" etc.

I just don't get it at all. My mum never spoke to me or my sister about puberty or menstruation. I asked her later why not and she said it's because it was embarrassing (for her). And i remember whenever she was popping out to do the big monthly shop, she'd knock on my door and whisper "do you need any you know whats?" so that my brother didn't hear. And i got told off for leaving a towel once outside of the cabinet as my dad saw it!

I was brought up to think that periods were embarrassing and should be hidden from males. Which is maybe why i now think that actually, boys should be educated about periods. But i support segregation of sexes during the puberty chats at school so both boys and girls can ask questions to the teacher without being embarrassed. But i still think menstruation should be included in these chats for the boys so that it's normalised.

I'm not meaning to be rude but this is really quite annoying me and other than 'because it's embarrassing' i don't know any other reason why children of this age ( many of whom have already started puberty!) haven't been told about it by their parents. Can anyone else shed any light?

I also don't really get the idea of having 'the talk' with your child about it. Surely when they're little and follow you everywhere, and see you in the toilet changing towels and getting dressed and ask questions about blood or "what are those lumps on your front", "why have you got hair there?"- you just answer there and then? I've never had 'a talk' with my child. It's all just fallen into place because I've always answered her questions factually but age-appropriately.

Sorry, i'm rambling now. If your child doesn't know about puberty and periods, can you explain why?

Whoops, some creative spelling there

Aeroflot.
I have very little experience of children with additional needs - only one 13 yr old, who is friends with dd. When I speak to her, I talk much as I would to dd (8) because I'm aware of her emotional age and I hope I'm doing the right thing. I'm just giving my opinion but I think I would now start now. I would gently explain the basics perhaps as I have to my 8 year old dd or even younger. Would that work? Perhaps start your own thread. There are plenty of knowledgable people on here.

They talked about erections in ds's sex Ed at school as he commented that it's really annoying in the morning when you need to pee and the erection makes it hard to aim for the toilet! I'm guessing that's his excuse for spraying round the bathroom

Also he said they will be doing male anatomy and puberty changes next week as they learned about girls this week

I am in my 60s and can remember my DM's awful embarrassment as she gave me "The Talk" just before my first period. Unfortunately, she didn't include my sister, who shared a room with me and was terrified when she saw my blood spotted bedding.

With my own DSs, now in their 20s, we did the slow drip of answering their questions from a young age and short chats at suitable moments. They both retained their innocence when they were children and have gone on to be mature and sensible young men.

Some may find this weird, but I was very proud when DS2, in his first proper relationship, asked me for advice when he and his girlfriend had various issues in their sex life. He told me he trusted me to give good advice and would tell him the truth without being embarrassed, whereas he felt that the internet or his friends would not be as helpful. This is what you get when you handle this part of their growing up well.

I wish I had done as well with other issues, though!

Iamastonished
Dd would have been frightened to death if I had left her outside of the cubicle aged 5/6. I once left her in the car for a few moments and put some stuff down in the kitchen and went straight back to get her. She was hysterical, she thought I'd locked her out.

It makes me furious that some girls might start their periods not knowing what is happening to them. There doesn't haven't to be a big talk. My 3 year old knows that I have periods, that she will grow breasts when she is older, that babies are made from a seed and an egg, and that babies come out of a special hole between the legs. This evening she asked how she got food when in my 'tummy', so we explained the umbilical cord and showed her a picture.

If I had thought that DD would start puberty earlier I would have told her even if I had had to force the information into her when she didn't want to hear it. It was pretty obvious that it wasn't going to happen in primary school though.

Disturbing that some (hopefully not many) people are still thinking that ignorance of puberty and sex = "innocence".

I can't help thinking that this attitude betrays an unspoken belief that sex is somehow bad.

The opposite of innocence is guilt. The opposite of ignorance is knowledge.

Kids can know - and be fascinated by - the fact that a plant grows from a seed and a chick hatches from an egg. But knowing about mammals will somehow corrupt them?! I don't think so.

Widehorizon may well remember changes in attitude after "the talk"... but I would hazard a guess that this is because "the talk" occurred at pretty much the same time as the onset of puberty. Puberty does cause changes in attitude.

Younger kids who know the facts of life are just as much children as those who don't. They're just better-informed children.

Every time I read a thread like this I'm reminded of the story of how Chad Varah came to found the Samaritans: he was shocked into action by the case of a 14 year old girl who killed herself because she thought she'd contracted an STI - in fact, she'd started her periods and didn't know what was happening to her.

It is shocking that more than 60 years later there are people out there who still think it's appropriate to bring their daughters up in a state of complete ignorance about their bodies because they mistakenly conflate ignorance and innocence. (Not just people on this thread - I've come across people like that in real life too).

I'm amazed that children can grow not knowing about the human body. Are there houses full of locked doors? Do toddlers not come to loo with you in public places? How do they not see tampons and pubic hair? Don't they share baths? Don't they ask about pregnant women's fat tummies and how the baby got inside? I've never had to have 'the talk' with any of mine. It's a continuous process from breastfeeding, through shared baths and changing rooms to teenage discussion about where to get morning after pill and how to prevent STIs.

My DD first learned about periods in a busy public toilet age 2 when she announced at the top of her voice from inside our cubicle, 'Mum! You've POOED yourself!'

Thanks very much mummy, I will see if there is any material for children with SN, Mabey some on here can recommend something.

YY to children following you everywhere and asking questions - my DS asked about my periods when he was about 3 because he wanted to know why there was blood in the toilet. Since he already knew he'd grown in my tummy (yeah, yeah, I know, uterus...) before he was born, I told him my tummy made a nest every month just in case I decided to grow a new baby, and if I didn't, it got washed out at the end of the month. (Of course, now he's older, he knows the correct names). I was surprised how long we went before he thought to ask how the babies got in there in the first place .

Yanbu we have taken the same approach op very open, questions answered from young age. No need for big solemn "talk" periods treated as fact of life. Dd aged 11 has a little sponge bag with towels and fresh knickers for her school bag just in case.

Cringe re confusion of ignorance and innocence.

And the inferences that girls start early due to obesity I was 11 at primary school and the ultimate skinny bean.

I talked to DD when she was 7, she had no interest before then. She's 11 now and started her periods last year with no panicking or stress (no discomfort either, she's been pretty lucky). Her cousin is 2 years younger than her and was really shocked when she saw DD's underarm hair when she stayed over here recently, she had no idea it would happen her!
DD is still innocent, having all of the facts about what happens to her body doesn't change the fact that she's still an innocent child, it's just that she's not shocked or frightened about what's happening and she can deal with it accordingly.

"Are there houses full of locked doors? Do toddlers not come to loo with you in public places? How do they not see tampons and pubic hair? Don't they share baths? Don't they ask about pregnant women's fat tummies and how the baby got inside?"

OH and I have always locked the door when using the bathroom. DD was never encouraged to follow anyone to the loo.
I never needed to change a tampon when out with her
I never shared a bath with DD as I have never liked lukewarm baths
I don't think DD noticed if women were pregnant. Maybe she just thought they were fat.

I have never been shy about being naked around DD and have showered in the shower cubicle when she was in the bath.

I just think childhood and its innocence is so fleeting, why not let them enjoy it as long as they can?

My grandmother told my mother I shouldn't know about periods because it would 'spoil her innocence', but my gran was born the 1920s.

My sister started her periods early aged about 10 or 11 and my mum made such a huge fuss about keeping it silent. I remember once asking what tampons were in Boots and my sister smirking that she knew whereupon my mum threatened her with a smack if she told me!

I think generally Year 6 is an appropriate time to start discussing puberty with children in schools, but then again, I'm not too keen on this idea of formal education as most kids find it excruciatingly embarrassing in a class context. It's definitely better if boys and girls can be separated.

DD has known about periods 'properly' when I started telling her in bits aged 9, but she'd seen the paraphernalia around for years. There's no need to sit them down for 'the talk', ideally parents should talk about this stuff all the time with children and its organic. I'd told them things in age-appropriate ways and then they came back to revisit.

Only when DD got to Year 7 did they have the formal talk on periods at school (which I realise is too late for many) and it was a helpful supplement, rather than a new thing, but she said that it still made her cringe for reasons she couldn't explain. Probably because these things are very intimate.

She's now 13 yet to start on her periods, though I anticipate it's going to be any minute now and feel like I'm intruding on her because I keep checking she's taking pads with her, wherever she goes and knows what to do at school, if she is caught out. I am also prepping her for the fact that she might be alarmed when it starts because it can seem like a lot of blood, but it's fine. All this kind of stuff, I think is better from mum, if at all possible, but then I'm old-fashioned.

At DD's school it seems to be broken down into two stages. The first talk in Yr5 is about body changes, puberty and periods. All the girls get given a zippered pouch with a selection of pads that they can chuck into their schoolbags and forget about until they need them. It used to happen in Yr6 but a considerable number of girls were having their first period well before that (DD started 7 weeks after her 11th birthday). The second talk focuses more on relationships and sex and is an ongoing discussion from Yr6. I've always felt that this was a well thought out approach that gives each child age appropriate information as they were likely to need it and be able to process it.

Sweary our school has identical approach I think they do it really well. They have a session for parents in year 5 to brief them take questions etc

Nothing until year 6 is lame far too late several girls in Dd class started before then

I have no idea if any of DD' peers started at primary school.

My DD has never shown any interest in how babies come into the world.

She has been with me in the loo a million times, but even as a toddler turned her back to give me privacy!

I feel very strongly that parents should have ongoing chats with their children so that everything naturally falls into place. I didn't want to do 'the talk' as I always thought that was ridiculous.

But I have found it difficult as my DD had zero curiosity in this area!

No questions. At. All.

After much thought, I kept her out of the sex ed lesson at school aged 6. I have always felt that if a child is old enough to ask a question they are old enough to get an answer. So... if a child hasn't asked the question in my mind they're not ready to know the answer.

I also wanted her to hear it from me, not in a classroom.

She was curious as to why she was pulled out of the lesson. I explained that the lesson was all about bodies and how babies were made and that I would prefer for us to talk about it at home first. She agreed! But still didn't want to talk about it.

Two years later... still no interest... so I pushed it and bought age appropriate books for us to read together. It took several MONTHS to get her interested but she now finally knows about sex. I have yet to cover periods (I have gone through menopause so nothing for her to see!). I will keep pushing!

So OP, it does happen that children don't know the facts, but in this case (and a couple of others on this thread) it's not for the want of trying!

The thing about Catholics and IVF being sinful: would they really be talking about this in Kindergarten? Seems unlikely. Sounds like the sort of thing some antiquated whiskery old caricature wimpled nun would say and don't find many of them in Nurseries.

Catholic nurseries are still regulated by Ofsted. Some of my kids are at a Catholic primary and they never say anything about IVF; one of DD's friends is not very well-behaved, lively and her mum always jokes that it's because she's peeved at having been 'stuck in a freezer waiting to defrost for 2 years'. They don't do any sex-ed there, but they do have single-sex 'circle time' in Year 6 where they can talk about what they want and they play it by ear in terms of teaching them about puberty/periods, depending on where most of the class are and what parents want.

When my DD was in Year 6, circle time consisted of a lot of talk about periods, because one child had already started. They also have a feelings box, which they are encouraged to use, which helps spot issues and diffuse them. It's probably a very common thing, but it wasn't used in DD's previous school. It's an excellent idea.