I don't understand why some children are 'shielded' from the idea of puberty

[MissQueueQ]

My child is 10 and last week the class teacher gave them a chat about puberty. Boys were split from girls. Periods weren't mentioned. Just very minor stuff such as "you may notice a bit of hair growing in places where it doesn't normally"; "your chest might start to change shape" etc. Parents were invited to attend.

Afterwards, a few of the mums (not sure about the dads as they were away in the boys' class) were giggling to each other and a few others were saying how they thought it was about time they had 'the changing talk' with their daughters later.

I was actually quite shocked at how the talk was delivered and received. I suppose the teacher doesn't have any say in the content, so I'm not blaming her or anything. But these children are 10-11 and some still hadn't been told by their parents about puberty? And menstruation wasn't mentioned?? I asked afterwards when that would be discussed with the children and was told around primary 7. So when they're 11-12 year old.

I'm just pretty shocked that nothing has changed since when i was at school. Why haven't all parents already spoken to their kids about puberty by this age? In my daughter's class, i know for sure one girl began her period last year, and a fair few have began to develop in their chests (my daughter included).

I told a few of the mums afterwards that i didn't understand why they were worrying about having a talk with the daughters later. Hadn't they already been asking questions? A few awkward replies with a few trying to laugh it off. "Oh yes, but i just tell her we'll chat about it when she's older" etc.

I just don't get it at all. My mum never spoke to me or my sister about puberty or menstruation. I asked her later why not and she said it's because it was embarrassing (for her). And i remember whenever she was popping out to do the big monthly shop, she'd knock on my door and whisper "do you need any you know whats?" so that my brother didn't hear. And i got told off for leaving a towel once outside of the cabinet as my dad saw it!

I was brought up to think that periods were embarrassing and should be hidden from males. Which is maybe why i now think that actually, boys should be educated about periods. But i support segregation of sexes during the puberty chats at school so both boys and girls can ask questions to the teacher without being embarrassed. But i still think menstruation should be included in these chats for the boys so that it's normalised.

I'm not meaning to be rude but this is really quite annoying me and other than 'because it's embarrassing' i don't know any other reason why children of this age ( many of whom have already started puberty!) haven't been told about it by their parents. Can anyone else shed any light?

I also don't really get the idea of having 'the talk' with your child about it. Surely when they're little and follow you everywhere, and see you in the toilet changing towels and getting dressed and ask questions about blood or "what are those lumps on your front", "why have you got hair there?"- you just answer there and then? I've never had 'a talk' with my child. It's all just fallen into place because I've always answered her questions factually but age-appropriately.

Sorry, i'm rambling now. If your child doesn't know about puberty and periods, can you explain why?

I just think childhood and its innocence is so fleeting, why not let them enjoy it as long as they can?

This is completely the wrong way of thinking - the body changing is part of growing up. It's completely unavoidable and doesn't somehow take away their innocence.

You cannot shield a little girl from having her period, and all you'll end up doing is leaving her feeling scared and alone when something happens - far more damaging than giving them the talk to prepare them.

My mum (and dad to be fair) was horrendous, made the whole things so much harder than it needed to be and starting my periods was excruciating for embarrassment reasons. I'd like to go the opposite way and my daughters have both seen me in the loo and "mummy's nappies" are a source of humour to them. They get it's to do with how babies are made but I think it's time I got the older one (7) a book - any recommendations?

Like a pp said I think this conversation is far easier now than a "talk" at 10/11.

MY DM made a huge fuss of this and even tried to stop me from having the less age 9, however I was savvy enough to understand actually this was because thats the way she was, it didnt embarras me or affect me at all, I had already spoken to friends about it all.

What did humiliate me was my older siblings making a huge fuss of my mums attitude and whispering with each other and making a huge deal about telling me, making me sit in a room, then walking past giggling until eventually one of their GF was sent in to talk to me about. They made such a fuss I wondered what heinous things had actually got left out.

It was cringeful and awful.

With my own dd, I have casually mentioned things for a long time, sheep givivng birth at farm the blood - why its there, why we get periods...I got her the simple book recommended on here actually amazon, for dc - to simply explain reproduction, I have entwined with with nature, she understands, eggs, sperm, periods why we have them, that you can control the babies you have by stopping the sperm meeting the egg. What I have not said yet is about actual sex. But she knows animals have to mate to have babies.

I hope its just all usual chat to her and nothing to make a big deal about, I said the day you notice some blood means X and come to me and we will do Y - its not big deal.

However what I have been very keen to drum into her is the effect hormones can have. This was never explained to me anywhere and I suffered awful mood swings and never had the faintest idea why! I have explained the different feelings you have - sadness - anger, and how if you know your periods coming you can say "oh, this is just hormones it will pass soon"

widehorizon Innocence doesn't have to mean ignorance. It's not as if the minute they find out about biology they suddenly stop enjoying childhood. It's no different to them knowing all humans take a shit. It's just something that happens.

she is 9 BTW and we started casual in chat about nature etc from 6 ish

The first thing I knew about periods was when I thought I was bleeding to death aged around age 11. On discovering it was going to happen every month for the forseeable future I was less than happy. Oddly enough, DM had already taken me bra shopping although I didn't really need so not sure why she hadn't mentioned periods.

I don't remember being taught about it in school although we covered pregnancy/birth in 2nd year at high school (in such a fashion that our school had a very low teenage pregnancy rate).

I did a lot of baby sitting as a teenager and I remember arriving at someone's house one night to be handed an Usborne book on human development and told that their youngest daughter (aged about 9) had just started bleeding and could I please explain to her, her sister and her two brother that it was perfectly normal.

I think should I happen to have a girl at some point, I would rather explain earlier on just in case she starts at the lower end of the curve rather than goes through the panic I and that little girl I babysat for encountered.
DS already knows mummy bleeds sometimes because I can not go to the bathroom without him.

Oh and MY dd is still wonderfully child like and innocent!

All this nonsense about losing their innocence too - a few parents were very upset about their girls becoming women - they didn't want them to grow up.

I couldn't agree more. I have two DDs, aged 9 and 10. I have always been open when they asked questions about anything relating to puberty, bodies etc. When they each turned 9 I got them a few books and sat down and chatted to them about puberty, and we have continued the conversation on and off ever since. Interestingly, DD2 initially said she didn't want to read the books and put them away. A few months later she got them out and read them avidly, and then talked to me about everything for ages and made me go shopping for sanitary products and put them in a particular place!

My mother barely told me anything. I agree with a PP that it is bordering on cruel. I don't want my DDs to have the same worry and embarrassment and lack of knowledge that I did, it's not fair. People (parents and teachers) need to woman up, squash down their own embarrassment and do the right thing!

nrft but I agree OP. My son has sort of organically gathered knowledge from me over the years, from age 3 or so, and now 11 knows lots about puberty for both sexes, as well as periods, how babies are made, the basics of how they are born, breastfeeding.
It's part of life, and not dirty. I have answered questions honestly when he has asked, that's all.
He isn't really pubescent yet, but he at least knows what might be coming, and that it's all OK.

"My son is 5, and walked in on me changing my tampon last month. He was terrified"

Haha! An almost identical thing happened to me (or rather, to my 5 year old daughter) - except with a mooncup which involves slightly more footling. I was in the bathroom facing away from the door, which I hadn't locked, and she had a pretty graphic view. I didn't even know she was there until I heard her run out, shouting to her older sister "DON'T GO IN THERE!!"

I've always been open about menstruation and sex, though obviously tried to keep it age appropriate. I also picked up some great advice, possibly on here, about just answering questions that are asked - that has helped ensure that my two process new info when they're ready for it. It's one of the few aspects of parenthood that I feel pretty sure I'm not messing up.

“But these children are 10-11 and some still hadn't been told by their parents about puberty?”

Because some children really don’t want to know. I tried to broach the subject with DD several times from the age of about 9 and even borrowed some suitable library books, but DD did the equivalent of sticking her fingers in her ears and going la la la. She really, really didn’t want me to talk about it. As I knew it was going to be covered in year 6, and as she was nowhere near showing any signs of puberty I decided to let the school educate her.

“Surely when they're little and follow you everywhere, and see you in the toilet changing towels”

Not all women feel comfortable having an audience, especially at that time of the month. At home DD never accompanied me to the loo. DD was also very uncurious about the facts of life (as it used to be called when I was young). She used to ask how babies were born when she was little and I told her it was like having a very big poo, and that satisfied her curiosity. She has just told me that when they had sex ed at school they had most of the lesson together, but took the boys out when they covered periods. I’m not sure why. All the parents were informed when they were going to have the lesson, and I asked her at home time if she had learned anything new that day and she said no. Honestly, she just didn't want to discuss it.

“I'll be honest here and say I think part of the problem is that childhood obesity is becoming more and more common (and indeed normalised) which, for a lot of girls, is bringing menarche forwards to an age where they are (possibly) too young to understand it.”

I think you are right. DD is a beanpole and started when she was thirteen and a half, same age as I was.

“I agree that the reason most girls are starting periods younger is because they are heavier and because they are taller”

I don’t think children are better nourished than my generation (I’m 58). If anything they eat more rubbish than we did, and move less.

I didn’t leave my stuff out in the open because there was nowhere to put it. I kept it in the bathroom cabinet under the sink, and DD wasn’t prone to exploring in there. By the time she was old enough to know about periods I was post-menopausal anyway.

I have always made it clear that DD could talk to me about anything, and we do seem to have a closer relationship than some of her friends do with their mums, but there are some things she feels more comfortable talking about with her friends than her old mum.

Back to the OP, I agree that certainly girls need to know about puberty earlier these days.

DD1 is 2, I've already told her she will develop breasts when she's older and that they produce milk for babies. She sees me BF DD2 so it has led to questions. She's just started asking about why daddy doesn't have a "front bum" like her (try as I might, she will only call her vulva a front bum). We try to answer all questions honestly and age appropriately. I think drip feeding from now will be best as then it isn't information overload later.
I don't remember a big talk from my parents, but I do remember my mum buying me sanitary towels before I needed them "just in case". I also don't remember my first period exactly, so I can only assume it wasnt a big shock as my parents prepared me for it.

Oh yeah, and I should say ds is a young 11. He has a lovely innocent soul. There's nothing un-innocent about knowing how bodies work, and how hormones can affect your emotions. He has know the simple mechanics of how a baby is made since age 4, it doesn't affect innocence.

Gosh, I am surprised by many if the reactions here. DD is 3 and I have given her age appropriate answers to questions about where babies come from and how they are made. She is curious and I don't want this to be a huge issue. She is still innocent and doesn't yet know about sex, just that mummy has an egg and daddy give some cells to make a baby. However when she asks I will just answer honestly. I don't think it will make her any less innocent or interested in sex.

We learned about sex and periods in primary five at a Scottish catholic primary and that was some time ago so I am a bit surprised that schools seem to have gone backwards.

There is no harm in knowing younger. It is nothing to be afraid of or embarrassed about. Yes kids may be fatter and that may make it easrlier, but the solution is not to hide the issue from them until they are older.

I think leaving it later leads to giggles and embarrasment, whereas younger children are very matter of fact.

I just think childhood and its innocence is so fleeting, why not let them enjoy it as long as they can?

Knowing about bodily functions and sexuality does not take a child's innocence away. Children have sexual thoughts (in their own, innocent way, of course) all the time. Very often parents want to preserve their own idea of what their children think and feel rather than what is actually the case.

My mum was one of the embarrassed types who didn't want to discuss puberty. I remember having to ask her myself to get the conversation over.
So with my two DD I introduced "mummy Laid an Egg" at an appropriate age and they've seen me in the bath which meant they asked questions.
I've talked about a period and what it's made from. Glad I chose an early approach as neither girls seem embarrassed to be open about growing up.

My ds is in the school year. They will behaving sex education soon. He knows about the mechanics of sex, erections, masturbation and periods. The new knowledge to him will be wet dreams and contraception (if they cover that) He knows that pregnancy can be prevented but wouldn't know about condoms. I know that this is covered in y7 science next year.

My dd (8), yr4 used to follow me to the loo. She was adamant aged 5 that she was never going to have a period. So I just said, maybe she'd have them and maybe not, we'd see when she grew up and left it as she found it too distressing.

From little (maybe 5), I explained about babies growing in the tummy like a birds nest but inside instead of outside. I now use the correct terminology so told the womb, sperm (which I used to call a seed when she was little) and the egg and a little of how and where it comes out. I explained about the placenta the other day. I haven't yet told her how the baby is made. That's the next step. Every time she asks, I give details in an appropriate manner. She usually zones out before I've finished explaining so I stop.

Parents not telling children creates a lot of mistrust and anxiety in the children imo. It is the adults, who have a poor attitude and transfer it onto their children and the next generation talk about period, erections and sex in whispered tones as though it's all very sordid. I didn't use a book or anything, to the poster, who asked but HTH.

Well, there's room for more than one viewpoint...I just remember the distinct change in my school year after we had 'the talk'. It definitely marked the end of playing together as equals and then the subsequent 'othering' of boys.

It just saddens me that this is happening earlier than it used to. The innocence of childhood is such a magical thing, I think we should value it far more highly than this thread seems to suggest we should.

But you don't need a 'big talk at a certain age. Drip feed over several years and then it's not a big massive deal and certainly no loss of innocence.

My son (age 9 in Year 5) recently had a lady come into school to give a Puberty Education class. The boys and girls were in the classroom together and they discussed both boys and girls puberty to all of them. I was a bit surprised at how young they were teaching it to start with but was in no way against them teaching it. Next year (Year 6) they will find out how babies are made. I've always answered my children's questions honestly in an age appropriate way as we go along. I've also told all my children (also have DTDs age 7) that if they ever have any questions they can come and ask me and they always do. My mum was always open and honest with me and I want to be the same with my children

Thankfully ds's school has done basics on puberty and at least a mention of periods at the end of Y2 - in Y3 some of the kids are 5 feet and wouldn't be surprising if a girl started periods. I've made sure that mine both know about periods (thankfully they've both grown out of analysing Rorshach blots on sanitary towels...) and now trying to make clear to ds (age 8) that in the next few years he will have to start washing more often, and when he's a teenager, consider what to do with facial hair.

At some point I'll need to clarify that sex isn't just had for making babies, but ds keeps wandering off if the conversation gets anywhere near there (via marriage and AIDS, so far). If I left it until my kids ask questions, I'd risk them doing so too late. Dd is very tall and sturdy so may start early.

One of my girlfriends started her periods at 9, having been told nothing by her mum or school. She was convinced she was dying and kept it to herself for many months before confiding in a teacher that she had some terrible cancer or similar.

When DS school had a talk about puberty in Y5 all the mums wanted to know who would be talking to the boys about periods! How else do you get rid of the stupid embarrassment about periods and retorts of "What's wrong with you? Are you on your period?" etc.

WideHorizon

I get what you're saying and I think it's the attitude that sex is sordid and "the talk", which possibly made you feel this way.

If we as little children slowly, over many years find out about nature, we perhaps wouldn't feel the same way. Sex is nature. I don't see why magic and innocence of childhood is lost by knowing that two adults can not only kiss but also a man can put his penis inside a woman's vagina to make a baby. It is perhaps the emotional attachment that we humans attribute to this act and the potential sordid side of sex that makes it seem as though innocence is lost (Ie look away this is xxxx rated). Yet a nature programme with dogs having sex does not cause the same level of outrage and this is natural and nature in action in the same way as human sex. Im my teachings with dd, I will as much as possible attempt to reframe human sex thus as we are all mammals whilst explaining this is very much something, which adults do. This will be very different from "the talk" I had from my mother when I was younger because my elder brother was teasing me because he knew and I didn't.