I don't understand why some children are 'shielded' from the idea of puberty

[MissQueueQ]

My child is 10 and last week the class teacher gave them a chat about puberty. Boys were split from girls. Periods weren't mentioned. Just very minor stuff such as "you may notice a bit of hair growing in places where it doesn't normally"; "your chest might start to change shape" etc. Parents were invited to attend.

Afterwards, a few of the mums (not sure about the dads as they were away in the boys' class) were giggling to each other and a few others were saying how they thought it was about time they had 'the changing talk' with their daughters later.

I was actually quite shocked at how the talk was delivered and received. I suppose the teacher doesn't have any say in the content, so I'm not blaming her or anything. But these children are 10-11 and some still hadn't been told by their parents about puberty? And menstruation wasn't mentioned?? I asked afterwards when that would be discussed with the children and was told around primary 7. So when they're 11-12 year old.

I'm just pretty shocked that nothing has changed since when i was at school. Why haven't all parents already spoken to their kids about puberty by this age? In my daughter's class, i know for sure one girl began her period last year, and a fair few have began to develop in their chests (my daughter included).

I told a few of the mums afterwards that i didn't understand why they were worrying about having a talk with the daughters later. Hadn't they already been asking questions? A few awkward replies with a few trying to laugh it off. "Oh yes, but i just tell her we'll chat about it when she's older" etc.

I just don't get it at all. My mum never spoke to me or my sister about puberty or menstruation. I asked her later why not and she said it's because it was embarrassing (for her). And i remember whenever she was popping out to do the big monthly shop, she'd knock on my door and whisper "do you need any you know whats?" so that my brother didn't hear. And i got told off for leaving a towel once outside of the cabinet as my dad saw it!

I was brought up to think that periods were embarrassing and should be hidden from males. Which is maybe why i now think that actually, boys should be educated about periods. But i support segregation of sexes during the puberty chats at school so both boys and girls can ask questions to the teacher without being embarrassed. But i still think menstruation should be included in these chats for the boys so that it's normalised.

I'm not meaning to be rude but this is really quite annoying me and other than 'because it's embarrassing' i don't know any other reason why children of this age ( many of whom have already started puberty!) haven't been told about it by their parents. Can anyone else shed any light?

I also don't really get the idea of having 'the talk' with your child about it. Surely when they're little and follow you everywhere, and see you in the toilet changing towels and getting dressed and ask questions about blood or "what are those lumps on your front", "why have you got hair there?"- you just answer there and then? I've never had 'a talk' with my child. It's all just fallen into place because I've always answered her questions factually but age-appropriately.

Sorry, i'm rambling now. If your child doesn't know about puberty and periods, can you explain why?

You're not an alien. My mother failed miserably when it came to telling my anything about puberty, menustration etc ... she handed me a book!
Not helpful. I swore I would be more helpful for mine, and I'm trying to be.

My oldest is a boy in Y7. When he was in primary school and they were talking about sex, he asked me in a roundabout way if he could ask questions, etc. I braced myself and let him go for it. I was straightforward about it. He was a bit embarrassed, but it means he knows he can ask questions. Just this week he asked me a really 'interesting' question, that I did initially shush because his youngest sibling (too young) was with us, but I went back 30 minutes later, sucked it up, and briefly explained without going into a lot of detail. Mortifying all round, but it's better to be armed with the knowledge then not IMO.

I think parents who hide from telling their children what they need to know to be healthy, safe and confident are doing them a real disservice. If not you, who? Why have children if you're not going to help keep them healthy and safe by telling them what they need to know?

Wide Horizon i agree that the reason most girls are starting periods younger is because they are heavier and because they are taller (and generally more well nourished) than previous generations. But i still don't think there is any reason why, say, an eight year old who is starting her period would be too young to understand it. Of course, excluding any learning or neurodevelopmental disability that would impair their understanding.

Surely if a mum's sanitary products are left out in the open, or a young child asks "what's that?" when seeing Mum change towel/tampon in the loo, or "what's that" when seeing the tampon machine in a public toilet, it's answered right away in an age -appropriate manner? Unless children are deliberately shielded from these things, and/or discouraged from asking such questions (e.g. "oh never mind", "It's something for ladies not for children", "we'll talk about it when you're older" etc), i don't know why any typical eight year old would have their first period without some understanding what is happening to them.

There must be plenty of opportunities for puberty and menstruation to be explained from a very, very young age and this knowledge should become more developed as the child ages and asks more specific questions.

My dd is 6, almost 7, and although I haven't gone into any great detail about things, she knows the basics of puberty - but it is the very basics.

I wanted to start to have a proper chat with her soon about more things and wondered if anyone had any recommendations of any good books for young children on the subject?

my friend is dutch and her dd is about 19 now, but she told me In Holland it is very commonplace to talk about sex from a very early age. She said her daughter knew what a vibrator was when she was about 8!!! They have such an open relationship I think it's fantastic...

I started my periods aged 10 and we'd already had the periods talk from the school nurse with free samples of 'Simplicity' and that was 1989ish. Saved my DM having to talk to me about it which was quite a relief for her I think. Even though it was yonks ago, it sounds like my school got it more right than some today.

When I was at school, about 15 years old, there was a girl whose DM wouldn't let her have a bra and use deoderant, let alone shaving legs etc. She smelt awful and I really felt for her. Goodness knows how she dealt with periods - I never asked.

It's bonkers how much some people are in denial about their kids growing up. It was really detrimental to this girl's development I think. She did act quite young for her age and preferred to play with my friend's 11 year old brother than with us.

I don't understand the embarrassment, I really don't. What is there to be embarrassed about? Mummy and Daddy have genitalia and have sex? Mummy menstruates?

It's not as if you are actually SHOWING them or anything. It just means that, yes, Mummy and Daddy are human beings and this is what human beings have and do.

and because they are taller (and generally more well nourished)

No, that's not the case, the main studies have used BMI as their measurement tool so height has been accounted for. It is the metabolic activity of the actual fat tissue that brings about the premature puberty.

I can see the argument for wanting to allow DCs to experience as long a childhood as they can tbh. The median age for menarche is still just shy of 13 though, so having 'the talk' at 8 is a bit much IMO.

FWIW, I think it actually quite rude to assume that people who want their children to spend their childhoods being, y'know, children are somehow embarrassed. You may not agree with it, but its a perfectly valid viewpoint nonetheless.

I just think childhood and its innocence is so fleeting, why not let them enjoy it as long as they can?

At ten, girls need to know about periods. It's better for them to get the facts from a parent or teacher than pick up half facts from their peers. Ten years ago, I shocked my 13 year old step niece when I heard her whispering about periods. They both thought menstruation was a one time event. I explained they would do this every month except whilst pregnant until they reached menopause at fifty or so.

How cruel is it though to let a child start menstruating completely unprepared for it? It happened to my grandmother back in her day and she thought she was dying!

I am in my late 60s, started my periods at 11, had pubic hair and boobs, luckily my Mum had told me everything (about them not actual sex) My oldest children now in their 40s had sex education at school, we as parents were asked to go and see the films, we could remove our children from these lessons, found it really embarassing sitting with strangers husbands watching, an animated film of people having sex. My kids knew about periods when they were tiny, tampons explained, work mates had a go at me said young children shouldnt know about such things. Our sex education at school in the 60s, was periods when we were 15.

I started the puberty talk with my DD 8 but wont start any sex ed yet, probably not until 11ish.

I am keen that puberty be celebrated as part of her childhood rather the whole 'becoming a woman' type of thing that we were taught.

You are not a woman at 12 so being described as such is really frightening

Sorry Wide Horizon I completely disagree with what you're saying about preserving childhood and 'innocence'. But your perspective has helped me to understand why a lot of children do not know about puberty until long after it's already happening to them.

A natural part of childhood is asking questions and gaining knowledge. A young child understanding about their bodies is not taking away any innocence.

My daughter's childhood and 'innocence' has never once been impaired as a result of me answering her questions about puberty and sex. The fact that it's been normalised and is discussed very matter-of-factly means that she just carries on about her activities after asking a question/making a comment, completely unfazed.

A person who does not know about puberty is no more innocent than a person who does.

When I got pregnant with DC2, I bought 3yo DC1 the Usborne lift the flaps Where Do Babies Come From. She then happily informed my DM while talking about her new kittens that daddy cats have sperm which they put in the mummy cat to make kittens.

DM's sex ed was a conversation while I was in the bath aged 10 about the mechanics of menstruation where we didn't make eye contact, and a warning before I went to a party aged 16 to be careful because when boys had a drink they might want to "do things". The look of awkwardness on her face at being spoken to about the facts of life by a preschooler was hilarious.

But your perspective has helped me to understand why a lot of children do not know about puberty until long after it's already happening to them

Nice strawman there! You crack on though

Full on embarrassment. I've known mums clearly changing the subject and refusing to talk about puberty with their dcs when they are HCP themselves!!
When I told them what I had explain to my own dcs, they were looking at me weirdly.
The worst thing is that I don't think I've told them a lot or very early on (they never asked that many questions when they were little).

But surely at some point you should have talked to them about erection and periods and how to make a baby!

I agree, dd1 started her periods in year 5, I'd already explained it all from age 7, they didn't cover puberty until she was in year 6. I believe parents should talk to their dcs about puberty to help them prepare.

How does knowing facts about your body parts and what they do take Away innocence? Just means they are ignorant of the facts not innocent. 8 is plenty old enough to know some basic facts of life. I was 11 when I started and so was dd

Started periods I mean

I am amazed at how young girls can NOT know about periods. Do they not go into the bathroom, or visit public loos with their mums? I can't have any privacy from the kids, even if I try! My daughter is 6 and she asks a million questions about everything. I use cloth sanitary pads too so she even helps me choose fabrics and sits with me at the machine when I sew them. Why the taboo? It's bizarre. I am a teacher and have had lots of girls of period starting age come to me in a panic, unaware of what is happening and need me to fetch them an emergency pad. I wouldn't dream of letting my daughter down like that.

Very childish but I did have a quiet giggle, OP, at chatting willy nilly about sex I totally agree with the points you've made though.

My daughter is P7. (for those outside Scotland, children in P7 right now will be anywhere between 11 and a bit and 12 and a bit). We had the chat about growing up and periods and everything well over a year ago. I got her a really good book and we went through it together. I encouraged her to ask lots of questions. I also had a hysterectomy last year because of fibroids and horrendous periods, so lots more questions came up then.

They haven't really done much in school, certainly not to the level we've discussed at home. She is prepared and ready when it happens - she keeps a couple of wrapped towels in her bag just in case.

My son is older at at secondary the emphasis is more on the social side of things - relationships and friendships rather than the mechanics of puberty. I think they're assuming that by 12, most will know. It's crap that there are some kids who have immature parents who won't talk about this like an adult.

It's embarrassment, that's all.

Our own Mothers were probably not told anything at all, and that attitude went down to them and then down to us. It's less taboo now, but surely it's not hard to understand that talking about biological processes involving genitals are going to be a cause of discomfort for many people.

I can't force myself to be something I'm not. I have sons so it's not such a problem if they don't know about periods at age 7 or 8.
Well my DS1 is 18 so obv knows all about them.

My 8 yo doesn't. I am able to deal with my periods w/o him seeing.

Agree 100% with your last post there MissQ. Knowledge of your body doesn't mean you have no childhood.

I also don't see the necessity for sitting down to a big'talk* either. Just answer questions as and when they arise over the years. They go off mull things over and ask a bit more later. It means they feel they can ask anything any time and it's at a nicer pace. There are some great books on this too which are useful to have on the bookshelf.

I'm fully expecting a barrage of anecdata from people whose beanpoles DD started her periods at 7 and vice versa, but on a population level, carrying excess body fat results in earlier menarche.

Not necessarily obesity, puberty in women is linked to weight/body fat which is why annorexics and elite athletes often do not menstruate.

I started puberty at 9 (now 50) I wasn't obese but I had reached my full height by 11 and needed a bra.