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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Non Binary / Gender Neutral

952 replies

MissBax · 17/05/2017 08:21

Okay so I know this may spark some serious debate. I just want to say that I really don't want to offend ANYONE, however AIBU to say that the whole non Binary trend (for want of a better word) is getting abit out of hand??
If someone was born a man and chooses to transition to a woman or vice versa I understand that, but to say you don't identify as having a gender... I just don't understand it?! I am female but have never been girly - I didn't have dolls, I despise pink, and I always played football with the guys, climbed trees and was very sporty. But I'm still a girl. I know boys who didn't necessarily like "boyish" things but they're still boys. Any girl or boy can like anything they like.
Now we have "non binary" people who SAY they don't identify as one gender or the other, yet some of them are born female, wear make up and dresses. So following typically "girly" or "feminine" characteristics. Or those who have a sex change and THEN say they're non binary?! So then why have the sex change?!
AIBU to think this is just another way to ruffle people's feathers and possibly attention seeking?
(I wait in anticipation for being called ignorant and a biggot etc...)

OP posts:

Thread gallery

Railgunner1 · 17/05/2017 08:46

There are only two sexes. Sometimes there are biological anomalies. Also there are many MH issues.
And "gender identity" is bullshit.

Floggingmolly · 17/05/2017 08:49

Railgunner summed it up in a nutshell in the first post...

Original poster

MissBax · 17/05/2017 08:49

*"Here's a crazy thought, how about you try to stop framing everything according to your world view, and listen to people who identify as non-binary? You might learn something."

I assumed that was the point of the thread?*

Exactly - this is the whole point of the thread.

Yeah I did see them on GMB - I almost didn't want to say that as I'm not a fan of Piers Morgan but I was with him on this one.

Definitely agree that we need to be done with the patriarchy and allow everyone to just be themselves without feeling strange for not following gender stereotypes. But this is just not the way to go about it.

If someone can explain what it means to be binary, as a PP suggested, that probably would help...

OP posts:

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 17/05/2017 08:50

Are you new, OP? There are a billion threads about gender/transgender/non binary on here - they all say the same about gender roles etc

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 17/05/2017 08:51

Actually I haven't seen one of these for a couple of days

HeyRoly · 17/05/2017 08:51

It's utterly meaningless, isn't it?

I'm even more confused by people who use "non-binary" and "transgender" interchangeably. It's one thing to be drawn to androgyny (isn't that what non-binary is supposed to mean?) but how does that align with the standard definition of transgender, which is presenting as the opposite sex as opposed to neither?

The answer, I think, is that trans is so ubiquitous, so trendy and desirable, that people are piggybacking onto that term even though it doesn't really fit.

Having said all that, gender is a social construct and trans anything is a load of bollocks. Masculine women and feminine men should be exactly that. Present yourself however you like, but your biological sex stays the same.

Original poster

MissBax · 17/05/2017 08:51

Livia - semi newbie but hadn't seen any other posts! Will have a look...

OP posts:

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 17/05/2017 08:52

Feminism is the most prolific place. But this has been discussed on AIBU and Chat as well.

sooperdooper · 17/05/2017 08:53

I think non binary is putting a label on something that's been created in recent years where in simple terms pink for girls & blue for boys has got out of hand

Surely everyone is non binary? Nobody confirms 100% to a gender stereotype, feminine & masculine traits or likes/dislikes aren't inherent

Its like the kids today think they've invented something new & wanted a label for it, it doesn't really need a label because nobody is a walking talking stereotype and very few would aim to be

TinyRick · 17/05/2017 08:54

I think what us 'oldies' (I'm in my 30s btw) 'can't get our head around' is that this is even a 'thing'.

According to Stonewall's definition of Transgender, most people could call themselves it.

It doesn't really have a strong definition and it's all wishy washy and includes the majority of the population.

JanetBrown2015 · 17/05/2017 08:54

I very much support the movement. Since I was about 7 I have wanted much less gender division. I was a tom boy etc etc. Then in my teens all that feminist literature I read helped form my views too and now I continue in my 50s to think all these gender differences we sell all the time are so pointless. Csan we not evevn move to gender neutral passports? I just booked a December holiday on-line and was thinking why on earth do all these things I am booking need to know my gender?

FurryLittleTwerp · 17/05/2017 08:57

I don't understand why anyone has to "identify" as anything. Why can't they just "be" something.

I'd never say "Hello, I'm Furry, I identify as a heterosexual white woman", I'd just say "Hello, I'm Furry"

Actually I'm a bisexual black man - not really

If you are "being" something, then surely you can just "do" things, like wearing pink/blue/frills/leather/whatever or working as a ballet teacher / truck driver /any "gendered" occupation & in an ideal world no-one would give a shit or be prejudiced about your choices.

Why on earth it has to be dressed up in this ridiculous convoluted way beats me.

Original poster

MissBax · 17/05/2017 08:58

Janet - Yeah I'm totally with you on that. Could the airline thing be incase of an emergency? For them to identify how many men or women are on the flight? I actually have no idea but just thinking out loud....

OP posts:

Original poster

MissBax · 17/05/2017 08:58

Furry Exactly!!

OP posts:

iismum · 17/05/2017 09:00

But janet, surely what you support, from what you've said, is that gender in general is nonsense and we need to move on from it - not that a few special people are non-binary whilst those of us that see ourselves as women are therefore very happy in our little gendered box, which seems to be the implication of the trans movement.

I'm not trans and I'm not non-binary. But I'm not fucking cis, which is the alternative presented to me by the movement. I try to throw off the yoke of gender, not identify with it!

hackmum · 17/05/2017 09:00

I think a lot of liberal-minded people have come to feel comfortable with the trans narrative of being "born in the wrong body". So someone who is biologically male says he has felt since he was a small child that he was "really" female. OK, we might not understand why they feel like that but we can accept that that's a reality for some people.

"Non-binary" throws a spanner in the works of all that. It's much harder to grasp as a concept, because there is no "wrong body" narrative to it. Apart from the tiny minority of people who are intersex, everyone is either male or female. So it sounds suspiciously as if people who say they are "non-binary" are making a political statement rather than experiencing a genuine sense of psychological dissonance.

I could be wrong, of course, but would like to hear from "non-binary" people what they think. After all, we could easily argue that when it comes to gender, we are all non-binary, because no-one entirely matches prevailing gender stereotypes.

roarityroar · 17/05/2017 09:00

It's a load of bollocks.

Gender is a societal construct. Sex is real.

Westray · 17/05/2017 09:02

But I'm still a girl.

Do your parents know you are posting on an adult website OP?

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 17/05/2017 09:02

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39881527

a trans Pakistani died in Riyadh after being beaten to death with hosepipes by the "military police", they said he had a weak heart .

was this person a special snowflake then?

roarityroar · 17/05/2017 09:03

Janet - they want to know your sex not your gender

Original poster

MissBax · 17/05/2017 09:06

Westray - hilarious.

OP posts:

dotandstripe · 17/05/2017 09:06

What annoys me the most is how those people who are the most insistent on being able to identify as they like won't allow me the same right. They insist I'm not just a woman, I'm a cis woman. FFS. I'm perfectly happy for anyone to identify as trans or non-binary or whatever but some people just never shut up about it which rather makes it seem like they're doing it for attention.

Topas0117 · 17/05/2017 09:07

I don't know what going on but these days it seems that a lot of people want and try to be as different as they can (fair enough) and deliberately look for reasons to be offended! Have you got nothing better to do with your lives?

I know of a woman who is 'non-binary' and gets offended if you refer to her as 'her', 'she' - Seriously, fuck off, you're a woman and that's the correct English to use.

I think Piers Morgan made an excellent point. If someone were to identify as being black does that mean I am black?

Topas0117 · 17/05/2017 09:08

*they're not I am

BeyondStrongAndStable · 17/05/2017 09:08

I would say it's today's goth, except I know plenty of goths who kept it up after teenage years

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