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Original poster

To think Theresa May looks rattled

251 replies

WhoIsRonniePickering · 15/05/2017 22:37

I watched the interview she gave on BBC News. She looked nervous and shaky. Do you think she's now thinking she's made a massive mistake and misjudged the Corbyn juggernaut? She looked like she was thinking "fcccccccccccccck."

OP posts:
Peregrina · 18/05/2017 08:36

You guys are trying desperately to sweep the fact that Tory debt has risen...and keeps rising under the rug.

Yet somehow, they are credited with economic competence, when they are anything but.

Re tax 'dodging' - yes, legally avoiding, but who writes the laws to enable them to do so? They weren't handed down like tablets of stone were given to Moses.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 18/05/2017 08:43

Has God told you something?

Seriously? Hmm

All of these things you mention, all of the dangerous cuts in this spite-filled manifesto

Have you a crystal ball? It hasn't been launched yet. All that has been released us headlines.

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2017 08:45

One of the reasons this whole situation has arisen is because of the EU position on dodging and laundering. Those who were threatened by this have closed ranks both here and in the US. The EU has increasingly been keen on stopping shell companies and putting profit in one country and loss in another to minimise tax liability.

It's something that is wholly more difficult outside the EU to do. Labour's plan to do it wouldn't work - France hasn't faired well in its attempt. But that's only because it's done it alone and not with the EU on board.

For the EU's survival it needs public support. Closing loopholes is very popular. This is one reason they don't want a bloody great tax haven just off shore that goes by the name of England (sic).

Join the dots of inequality.

As for Labour, they also include a commitment to a meaningful vote on Brexit in the end. This is probably a stretch but it's just possible that they could use closing up loopholes in tax as leverage to force EU reform and a deal to in effect remain that way. As it would be extremely popular. And actually isn't that far out of line with what path the EU were already on.

It always comes back to this. Why did Farage religiously always turn up to vote against anti money laundering proposals when he never turned up to vote for anything else.

As the saying goes. Follow the money.

makeourfuture · 18/05/2017 08:51

Indeed Red.

Peregrina · 18/05/2017 08:53

The only good thing about coming out of the EU is that Farage won't have a seat as an MEP. Maybe he will then try again for a seat in Parliament. Or maybe he will put his money where is mouth is and head off to the US.

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2017 08:56

Farage is 52. He doesn't need to work.

Farage is lazy and likes his drink. The only reason he will do work - and that's likely to be easy media stuff - is to fund his expensive tastes and high life.

But he doesn't need to be an MP or an MEP or an advisor.

He can live quite comfortably in his EU pension.

Justanotherlurker · 18/05/2017 09:01

You guys are trying desperately to sweep the fact that Tory debt has risen...and keeps rising under the rug.

No one here is, it's you that keeps confusing deficit and debt, I'm not sure if you wanted the Tories to cut harder and faster to try and eliminate the Debt, I doubt it, so not sure what angle you are coming from

Has God told you something?

?? Yeah, i am struggling now to see where your coming from.

Sionella · 18/05/2017 09:04

And yet make persistently refuses to answer any questions, just bangs her little labour propaganda drum. I am beginning to think she must be Diane Abbott!

However fast you write tax laws, there will be lawyers and accountants able to get around them for their wealthy clients. It's like car manufacturers trying to keep up with car thieves.

makeourfuture · 18/05/2017 09:12

so not sure what angle you are coming from

Well here is Hunt on the deficit just this morning:

Q: You will promise to get the deficit down. Why on earth should anyone believe that?

We said, because of Brexit, we needed a little more flexibility.

Really? That's his answer? His party gave us this No-Plan Brexit. And now he cries instability?

Really?

And he chooses as "flexibility" - of all things they could look towards - meals for poor children?

makeourfuture · 18/05/2017 09:26

flexibility

What we know so far about targets:

  • food for poor children
  • heating for the old
  • elderly paying more for care and decreased pensions

I bring up God because May did. She claims to pray to God for guidance. What God suggested these things?

Justanotherlurker · 18/05/2017 09:38

His party gave us this No-Plan Brexit. And now he cries instability?

Well yeah brexit is a major instability no?

And as I'm sure you know, Brexit wasn't tied along party lines Cameron and quite a fair few of the conservatives where for Remain no?

As for the plan on Brexit, I'm a remainer so unfortunately stuck with the situation now but I'm not sure what type of "Plan" you are expecting anyone to come out with openly?

Part of the reason why this GE has been called is because if/when May wins the election there cannot be any accusations of "but she has no mandate!" that will help in negotiations.

makeourfuture · 18/05/2017 09:43

I'm not sure what type of "Plan" you are expecting anyone to come out with

Anything. At.All.

Just something. A poem. A wacky wishlist. Anything.

You would not open a whelk stall without at least some basic scratchings on an envelope.

NoLotteryWinYet · 18/05/2017 09:43

perhaps God also believes the richer of whatever age should pay when they can? If we're bringing deities into the conversation!

Productivity increases and technological change? We cannot afford our current basket of services. I'm not at all convinced that we've had a proper conversation about health spending or pensions and how out of control growth in those is impacting things like education spending.

grannytomine · 18/05/2017 09:46

I'm a pensioner, supposedly the Tory demographic and I know so many people who are saying they have never voted labour, never even considered it before but they want May out.

I'm not a committed voter for any party, I've always voted on the basis of what I felt about the candidate. I really like my Tory MP but unfortunately she won't get my vote this time. I will be looking at who has the best chance of winning the seat from her.

BeyondThePage · 18/05/2017 09:47

Yep - lets all bluster on about people with houses paying for care when education, health, pensions etc get conveniently kept quiet.

I17neednumbers · 18/05/2017 09:50

Some interesting initial response in the press and btl to the social care changes - of the "those who have saved and been prudent will be charged a death tax down to the last £100k of equity, they would have been better off spending it" type.

But I expect that will be fairly short lived. The cons can reply with the usual "the money should go to those that need it, nobody has a right to inherit". In some ways this may even appeal to lab voters who approve of means testing

The thing about "they would have been better off spending not saving" is that it would only be 'true' if you end up needing care. Apparently that is still quite a small proportion of all pensioners (one in six?) - many never do.

I17neednumbers · 18/05/2017 09:56

"Productivity increases and technological change? We cannot afford our current basket of services."

AI is a massive technological change which may well lead to huge productivity increases. There may be a huge challenge to find ways of channelling that into income for people whose current employment is replaced, but I don't think it's unfeasible to say that there will be continuing productivity increases.

The difficulty, as I say, will be to ensure that everyone benefits from that, rather than becoming unemployed as low-skilled and very high-skilled jobs (eg translation/interpreting, some legal work?) can all be automated. Come to think of it what do the manifestos say about that?!

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2017 10:04

Humans are surplus to requirement and those who are no longer profitable are worthless.

Did anyone see Dr Who at the weekend?

I17neednumbers · 18/05/2017 10:10

The implications of AI are quite scary RTB! But also unknowable at the moment. Maybe this is what the political parties should be discussing...

makeourfuture · 18/05/2017 10:10

The Expanse touches on this

Justanotherlurker · 18/05/2017 10:15

The difficulty, as I say, will be to ensure that everyone benefits from that, rather than becoming unemployed as low-skilled and very high-skilled jobs (eg translation/interpreting, some legal work?) can all be automated. Come to think of it what do the manifestos say about that?!

UBI is going to have to come in at some point, but we are still quite away from automation

NoLotteryWinYet · 18/05/2017 10:26

it is interesting 117, I work in warehouses which are one of the areas where companies are going for wall to wall MHE, it certainly could cause unemployment issues as warehouses are big employers of unskilled labour. Min wage policies will be hastening the move to automation. It's also the case that a lot of warehousing jobs are located in the labour heartlands.

Of course it creates more well paid software jobs, and jobs maintaining the MHE, but it has destroyed many more unskilled picking etc. jobs.

I17neednumbers · 18/05/2017 10:32

"Of course it creates more well paid software jobs, and jobs maintaining the MHE, but it has destroyed many more unskilled picking etc. jobs."

That's interesting notalottery. I suppose there was a similar change in agriculture after the war - machinery destroyed many unskilled agricultural jobs. So we have been here before in a way - though of course then there were still other unskilled jobs to go to.

Are we back to 'education, education, education' being the answer? (wistfully thinking back)

makeourfuture · 18/05/2017 10:32

unskilled labour

This is not an attack on you at all.....but isn't it time we got rid of this label?

Our public education system produces people with skills.

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2017 10:33

Theoretical:

I'm 30. My 70 year old mother has dementia. I've not yet had kids. There is not enough people to care for my mother, so I am effectively told I have to take a year off work to care for her or she will have to fed for herself. I can not afford to do this as I will loose the home I'm mortgaged up to the hilt on.

Seeing no other option and not much of a future I do the 'kind' thing and bump my mother off, hoping that I won't get caught or hoping that it won't be pursued in the public interest or if I do get caught I get a relativity light sentence on the basis of mitigating circumstances - and I hope that I will get out quick enough to still be able to have kids as if I end up caring for my mother I'm going to struggle to feed and house myself never mind a child making it something I can not consider otherwise.

^ I fear this will happen more and more because the way that things will structured will make it stacked against people in a certain age group. This type of decision making process is awful but a distinct possibility.